The Tim Sherwood Thread

[Marka Ragnos]

Changing the manager will make no difference IMO, it's a poor squad that is not up to the standard of the league

What "squad?" We don't have a squad. Tim keeps switching everything around to "find the spark." **** that spark bullshite. The best players don't start, and there's not been a chance for the best group to get used to each other and a formation. 

It's a testament to these players' skills -- some well-timed passing in dutch triangles, for example. -- that they have improved DESPITE Tim's machinations. Perhaps they are tapping into training they received at their previous clubs, or maybe Tim or one of his lieutenants has had a role, but he's undermined the "squadiness" of the squad repeatedly.

[BG_Villa_Fan]

I think we've got a squad that should be challenging for midtable at least and Sherwood is vastly under-performing with it.

Really?? I think it's awful. Gana,Veretout,Gardner and Westwood is a very very poor midfield choice

 

It suits your argument, so you would think that.

WTF should this mean lol you can't make an argument based on on something you think?

Fwiw I also think we as fans have been overrating our summer signings a bit too much.

Edited October 6, 2015 by BG_Villa_Fan

[Marka Ragnos]

I think we've got a squad that should be challenging for midtable at least and Sherwood is vastly under-performing with it.

Yup. His crazy subs and starting XI's. Driving me bonkers. 

[Dodgyknees]

I think we've got a squad that should be challenging for midtable at least and Sherwood is vastly under-performing with it.

Really?? I think it's awful. Gana,Veretout,Gardner and Westwood is a very very poor midfield choice

 

It suits your argument, so you would think that.

 

I think we've got a squad that should be challenging for midtable at least and Sherwood is vastly under-performing with it.

Really?? I think it's awful. Gana,Veretout,Gardner and Westwood is a very very poor midfield choice

 

It suits your argument, so you would think that.

Well yeah, he wouldn't make the arguement if he didn't.

 

What kind of bizarre logic is that, "you're only making the argument you are because of things you believe". 

Its the only way he can justify Sherwood is doing a good job. 

[markavfc40]

 

 

I don't think anybody is saying there is no way back if we got, say, 14 points out of the next 10 games.

What i think people are saying is there is absolutely no way we'll be amassing that sort of points total, therefore there is no way back.

 

I agree it is unlikely but strange things happen in football. In O’Learys first season we won just 2 of our first 13 league games we then won 5 of our next 7.

Every game we have lost this season has been by the odd goal. We are potentially not a million miles away. For me it is not beyond the realms that over the next 10 games we could get wins against Swansea (H), Watford (H), Newcastle (A) and West Ham (H) and pick up of couple of draws.

It needs something to spark us into life soon though as losing just cranks up the pressure and destroys confidence and I am not sure we have enough strong characters to handle that pressure. It also makes the manager start questioning himself and compromising on his footballing beliefs and we have already seen that with Sherwood.

Given the choice now Moyes, Rodgers, Allardyce or Sherwood I got to be honest I take one of the first three. That is not on the table though is it and won’t be on the menu for some time as I just can’t for one second see Lerner/Fox pulling the trigger so soon after overseeing a huge turnover in players and the fact that Sherwood last season succeeded in his only remit. It will, whether some like it or not, be seen as too soon.

For now then I have to, or maybe I choose to, give the man currently at the helm the benefit of the doubt, however slight that doubt may be. The alternative to that is knowing that he won’t be sacked but giving up totally on any hope of him turning it around after just eight games. I may as well cut my season ticket up now if that is the case and if my poor results threshold was that low I’d have probably given up going years ago.

 

Edited October 6, 2015 by markavfc40

[Marka Ragnos]

The only defence of Sherwood is that the players aren't good enough. Even if that was the case, he bought them, players them and has extended their contracts.

I think we've got some cool players. I actually like Veretout a lot -- very funny how he runs, hunched over, kind of lunging forward like a badger. Love that style of play ... but off-topic.


 

[romavillan]

 

 

I don't think anybody is saying there is no way back if we got, say, 14 points out of the next 10 games.

What i think people are saying is there is absolutely no way we'll be amassing that sort of points total, therefore there is no way back.

 

 

I agree it is unlikely but strange things happen in football. In O’Learys first season we won just 2 of our first 13 league games we then won 5 of our next 7.

 

Every game we have lost this season has been by the odd goal. We are potentially not a million miles away. For me it is not beyond the realms that over the next 10 games we could get wins against Swansea (H), Watford (H), Newcastle (A) and West Ham (H) and pick up of couple of draws.

 

It needs something to spark us into life soon though as losing just cranks up the pressure and destroys confidence and I am not sure we have enough strong enough characters to handle that pressure. It also makes the manager start questioning himself and compromising on his footballing beliefs and we have already seen that with Sherwood.

 

Given the choice now Moyes, Rodgers, Allardyce or Sherwood I got to be honest I take one of the first three. That is not on the table though is it and won’t be on the menu for some time as I just can’t for one second see Lerner/Fox pulling the trigger so soon after overseeing a huge turnover in players and the fact that Sherwood last season succeeded in his only remit. It will, whether some like it or not, be seen as too soon.

 

For now then I have to, or maybe I choose to, give the man currently at the helm the benefit of the doubt, however slight that doubt may be. The alternative to that is knowing that he won’t be sacked but giving up totally on any hope of him turning it around after just eight games. I may as well cut my season ticket up now if that is the case and if my poor results threshold was that low I’d have probably given up going years ago.

 

Sensible but for me 2 more losses put us on 4 points from 10 games and in a very dark place indeed. How far do we let that go? 4 points from 12? 4 points from 15? That would leave us needing to average nearly 2 points a game to be safe. That's close to title winning form and very unlikely to happen even if we signed Messi and Ronaldo in January and replace Sherwood with Guardiola.

 

That winning streak needs to start very soon indeed before the games left and points needed equation gets beyond us.

[Zatman]

that season under O'Leary we looked poor in some games before we hit form as well, remember being thrashed by both Manchester teams away and a terrible game at Spurs we were winning

[useless]

I think we've got a squad that should be challenging for midtable at least and Sherwood is vastly under-performing with it.

Yup. His crazy subs and starting XI's. Driving me bonkers. 

'At least' was probably too strong a phrase but I certainly think that they're capable of mid-table, if utilized correctly.

[SeanO]

I can't understand why he's still in charge.

I'm not usually quick to call for a manager to go (except TSM) but Sherwood looks completely lost.

He and us need to be put out of our misery before it's too late.

We won't win another game with Sherwood in charge imo as under him we are just like the team when Billy McNeal took us down, absolutely bloody useless.

 

[useless]

I think we've got a squad that should be challenging for midtable at least and Sherwood is vastly under-performing with it.

Really?? I think it's awful. Gana,Veretout,Gardner and Westwood is a very very poor midfield choice

I think it needs strengthening, but it's way too early to be judging Veretout and Gana. Gana looked very good before his injury and I'm sure he'll get back to that level. And I thought Veretout showed signs of promise on Saturday and will continue to improve if played in the right position. They were both highly rated before they joined and that wasn't for nothing.

[djdabush]

The depressing thing is that even if we did get 14 points in our next 10 games we'd be on 18 points from 18 games and looking at potentially getting 38 points if we mirrored our points tally in the second half on the season. Maybe if I thought it was realistic I might not be so depressed about it but I don't think there's any chance of him getting anywhere near total.

[Isa]

I really don't buy into blaming Sherwood for the Arsenal cup final. I don't even blame the players.

We came up against a vastly superior team at a time all of their players decided to play brilliantly. We couldn't get near them because they have 11 players who are far, far better than our 11 players.

Everything since though, has been embarrassing.

Sherwood out.

Arsenal were good, no denying that. But the nature of the gulf between the two teams that day was exaggerated by one side offering up zero resistance whatsoever. The course of the match was established within the first five minutes. In the weeks leading up to that game, Sunderland and Swansea set the marker for how to set up against them: low-block, counter-attack.

 

Sherwood, on the face of it, went with the thinking that this XI worked in the semi-final so it will work today. Problem is that Liverpool were in somewhat of a malaise and thus it was possible to outplay them. That is never a possibility against Arsenal. What irritated me the most about that game though, was despite us being absolutely dominated in that first-half, we were still (very fortunately) only 1-0 down and very much in the game. The manager though did absolutely nothing to change it at half-time and the second-half proceeded in the same manner. 

[GeordieVillan]

 

Its unlikely, but I'm just saying I don't think its at the point where there is no way back for him. He certainly hasn't burned his bridges - he's made some strange calls, people are seriously questioning him, but he's not overseen embarrassing collapses in individual games.

What about Leicester away?

True. He's overseen one (embarrasing) collapse - but that kind of thing does happen from time to time to all teams. I'm more concerned about the result themselves, rather than by the nature of the games or scorelines - if that makes sense - alot of our games could easily have seen us winning or getting a point, most of them have been very tight.

[Arj Guy]

I don't think our squad is anywhere near midtable quality. Most managers would struggle to avoid a relagation scrap with it. Sherwood isn't even acheiving that though.

[Chewie]

I've been out of this thread for a while (so apologies if this has been posted), but i came across this breakdown of the Premier League Season so far.

First of all, here is how the number of shots taken by each club compares with those they face in return. The average number of shots taken per match is on the horizontal and the average number faced is on the vertical, so bottom right (take plenty, allow few in return) is good while top left (take few, allow plenty) is bad:

I've said it multiple times in other threads, but the write up (and the graphic pasted above) show that we are simply not playing to our strengths. We are far too toothless in attack which is a ridiculous notion when you have players like Gil, Grealish, Traoure who can all run at defenders and caused issues. Tim really does need to start playing attacking football which is exactly what I thought he would be doing when he came on board.

 

Edited October 6, 2015 by Chewie

[KHV]

I think we've got a squad that should be challenging for midtable at least and Sherwood is vastly under-performing with it.

Really?? I think it's awful. Gana,Veretout,Gardner and Westwood is a very very poor midfield choice

 

It suits your argument, so you would think that.

Absolutely nothing "very poor" about that midfield. 

I feel it's where we are weak, Sanchez is still hit and miss (more miss IMO), Veretout is struggling to find his feet, Gana looks like he is struggling after his injury, Gardner will never be a prem midfielder IMO, which leaves Westwood. It is my argument and it is my opinion which I am just expressing.

[Marka Ragnos]

The depressing thing is that even if we did get 14 points in our next 10 games we'd be on 18 points from 18 games and looking at potentially getting 38 points if we mirrored our points tally in the second half on the season. Maybe if I thought it was realistic I might not be so depressed about it but I don't think there's any chance of him getting anywhere near total.

I just try to enjoy the next game.

I don't worry about whether we'll go down or not, or what the next game's points or points-dropped means or doesn't mean. I can't think that way. 

What usually worries me is when we're not trying to win. I don't think that's a problem at the moment.

What applies now has to do with our manager's abilities.

I know this sounds really harsh, but I think he's just not clever enough to comprehend the depth of the game -- at this level. There's a naivety there. If he had magical players and endless money, that would be OK. But he's got limited money and a mid-table set of players.

You need a manager clever enough to succeed in those circumstances. You need a motivator, too, but one with real substance and experience, too -- someone who doesn't collapse at the first sign of stress and who doesn't paper over his bullshite with arrogance.

Edited October 6, 2015 by Plastic Man

[AntrimBlack]

I happen to like the players he bought, and what we know of them from their previous clubs would suggest to me that they are talented players. However, it is impossible to judge at this stage whether they are suited to this league, or capable of keeping us up, or finishing towards mid table, simply because they are being mismanaged.

[TRO]

I think we've got a squad that should be challenging for midtable at least and Sherwood is vastly under-performing with it.

Really?? I think it's awful. Gana,Veretout,Gardner and Westwood is a very very poor midfield choice

 

It suits your argument, so you would think that.

Absolutely nothing "very poor" about that midfield. 

I feel it's where we are weak, Sanchez is still hit and miss (more miss IMO), Veretout is struggling to find his feet, Gana looks like he is struggling after his injury, Gardner will never be a prem midfielder IMO, which leaves Westwood. It is my argument and it is my opinion which I am just expressing.

                           I too think Midfield is a major concern....joey Barton anybody.....tin hat ready.