Speculation Hiroshi Kiyotake

[CrackpotForeigner]

I get the feeling that if Lambert really wanted this player, shifting a few to clear the wages wouldn't be an issue. He's already shown he's actively trying to get players off the books, which isn't something you can just instantly do. So what's the point in holding back on an investment now? Chances are Bent is going to be a last minute panic buy for someone, waiting until then to stump up cash for a player like this is just madness.

 

I don't think there is anything in this story, they enquired, were stonewalled and that was the end of that.

 

I'd love to see it and I'd love to be eating my hat, but I'm skeptical of it.

 

You may be right, but it's also possible that RL genuinely wants to shift players out before getting people in. I get the feeling that under MON there was a looser strategy, which resulted in MON buying at will and never quite getting around to shifting anyone, despite the intention being there more or less.

 

If the papers are right and Nuremburg have set the price at 10 million, this is probably after discussion with Kiyotake himself (and may even be in his contract). If that is so, and we're still interested, there's no reason not to expect something to happen after DB moves on (as about 1,000 posters have suggested).

[Keyblade]

I'm going to get derisory comments for this but it's pretty obvious if we do get Kiyotake he is our replacement for Barry Bannan. 

 

For those of you who don't think Bannan had a good season last year, Kiyotake would be our upgrade on Barry Bannan.

 

Point is, same type of player. I hope we get him.

 

While not a preposterous point in itself, you're implying that you think Bannan to be an attacking midfielder despite him having 0 goals, and 1 assist last year (which is the criteria by which you judge Westwood and Delph to be defensive midfielders). Hmm

[Philosopher]

 

I'm going to get derisory comments for this but it's pretty obvious if we do get Kiyotake he is our replacement for Barry Bannan. 

 

For those of you who don't think Bannan had a good season last year, Kiyotake would be our upgrade on Barry Bannan.

 

Point is, same type of player. I hope we get him.

 

Con I sometimes wonder if you have ever watched Bannan play I really do.

 

Granted Bannan was an Attacking Midfielder when playing with the academy side (a good number of years ago now), trying to be the "little genius" who would unlock a defence. However even in the academy side he started playing deeper and Samir Carruthers took that AM role.

 

For the first team Bannan has rarely if ever played in the attacking midfielder role that Kiyotake will play.

 

Under Lambert Bannan has exclusively been used as a deep lying midfielder used to keep possession and spread the play. I have often seen you refer to him as our Iniesta but Iniesta drifts past players at will, Bannan is not able to do this at mens level.

 

We were trying to make him into a really really really really poor version of Xavi and he wasnt even quite up to that.

 

The point is that kiyoteke ins't an out and out ACM.  He more of a midfielder playmaker, which is how i'd describe Bannan. Kiyotake isn't going to go past players at will with pace and skill, but he will spread the play, find those pinpoint throughballs and keep the ball well with good close control and touch. This is the type of player I had hoped Bannan would become unfortunately he hasn't been smart enough to make up for his lack of strength, and his decision making is poor. 

 

Bannan imo get too much stick! He has talent and offered us something we don't have (a playmaker), he's also had some very good games for us.  I think because Con is always fighting his corner people just assume that when Con mentions Bannan, he's making him out to be a great player. For me Bannan hasn't done enough to be picked so needs to be moved on but that doesn't mean he is this completely inept piece of rubbish thats the cause of all our sorrows, that many make him out to be.

 

This doesn't surprise me though as I have spent years defending Gabby when he was being attacked and written off in the past, whenever injuries or burnout struck, but we all know that we'd be relegated by now without his efforts! When a player isn't performing to our expectations they are always likely to be made a scapegoat!

[villaglint]

 

 

I'm going to get derisory comments for this but it's pretty obvious if we do get Kiyotake he is our replacement for Barry Bannan. 

 

For those of you who don't think Bannan had a good season last year, Kiyotake would be our upgrade on Barry Bannan.

 

Point is, same type of player. I hope we get him.

 

Con I sometimes wonder if you have ever watched Bannan play I really do.

 

Granted Bannan was an Attacking Midfielder when playing with the academy side (a good number of years ago now), trying to be the "little genius" who would unlock a defence. However even in the academy side he started playing deeper and Samir Carruthers took that AM role.

 

For the first team Bannan has rarely if ever played in the attacking midfielder role that Kiyotake will play.

 

Under Lambert Bannan has exclusively been used as a deep lying midfielder used to keep possession and spread the play. I have often seen you refer to him as our Iniesta but Iniesta drifts past players at will, Bannan is not able to do this at mens level.

 

We were trying to make him into a really really really really poor version of Xavi and he wasnt even quite up to that.

 

The point is that kiyoteke ins't an out and out ACM.  He more of a midfielder playmaker, which is how i'd describe Bannan. Kiyotake isn't going to go past players at will with pace and skill, but he will spread the play, find those pinpoint throughballs and keep the ball well with good close control and touch. This is the type of player I had hoped Bannan would become unfortunately he hasn't been smart enough to make up for his lack of strength, and his decision making is poor. 

 

Bannan imo get too much stick! He has talent and offered us something we don't have (a playmaker), he's also had some very good games for us.  I think because Con is always fighting his corner people just assume that when Con mentions Bannan, he's making him out to be a great player. For me Bannan hasn't done enough to be picked so needs to be moved on but that doesn't mean he is this completely inept piece of rubbish thats the cause of all our sorrows, that many make him out to be.

 

This doesn't surprise me though as I have spent years defending Gabby when he was being attacked and written off in the past, whenever injuries or burnout struck, but we all know that we'd be relegated by now without his efforts! When a player isn't performing to our expectations they are always likely to be made a scapegoat!

 

 

Philosopher you so often talk sense so if you have seen Kiyotake play then I will bow to your greater knowledge.

 

However from the clips I have seen Kiyotake very much looks like an AM who does go past a player with pace and skill. There are a number of videos showing him doing exactly this.

 

For what's its worth I agree with what you say on Bannan and I wasn't (intending) to give him stick. I would go into more detail but I don't want to turn this into another Bannan/Con thread.

[Shillzz]

Some stereotyping coming up here:

 

I'm not overly fussed on the idea of signing Kiyotake in all honesty. I couldn't name you any Japanese players who have adapted particularly well to the Premiership; it just doesn't seem to suit them. Perhaps they have trouble dealing with the physicality of it, even someone as previously brilliant as Manchester United's Kagawa has struggled to make an impact that matches their potential.

 

If we're going to sign an attacking midfielder, then it needs to be someone with the ability to chip in defensively aswell. I don't think we can afford the luxury of playing a number 10, in addition to our 3 forwards. Someone like Jimmy Milner would be far more ideal; he has the ability to set up play going forward but can also put his foot in defensively when it's needed. OK we're not going to get Milner back, but that's the kind of player I think we should be looking at.

[samjp26]

Some stereotyping coming up here:

 

I'm not overly fussed on the idea of signing Kiyotake in all honesty. I couldn't name you any Japanese players who have adapted particularly well to the Premiership; it just doesn't seem to suit them. Perhaps they have trouble dealing with the physicality of it, even someone as previously brilliant as Manchester United's Kagawa has struggled to make an impact that matches their potential.

 

If we're going to sign an attacking midfielder, then it needs to be someone with the ability to chip in defensively aswell. I don't think we can afford the luxury of playing a number 10, in addition to our 3 forwards. Someone like Jimmy Milner would be far more ideal; he has the ability to set up play going forward but can also put his foot in defensively when it's needed. OK we're not going to get Milner back, but that's the kind of player I think we should be looking at.

 

Kagawa has mainly been played out of position at United to be honest. When he has been played in the hole, which is his best position, he has flourished in my opinion.

 

You can't assume a player wouldn't be able to deal with the Premier League because they're Japanese.

Edited August 9, 2013 by samjp26

[pablo82]

Some stereotyping coming up here:

 

I'm not overly fussed on the idea of signing Kiyotake in all honesty. I couldn't name you any Japanese players who have adapted particularly well to the Premiership; it just doesn't seem to suit them. Perhaps they have trouble dealing with the physicality of it, even someone as previously brilliant as Manchester United's Kagawa has struggled to make an impact that matches their potential.

 

If we're going to sign an attacking midfielder, then it needs to be someone with the ability to chip in defensively aswell. I don't think we can afford the luxury of playing a number 10, in addition to our 3 forwards. Someone like Jimmy Milner would be far more ideal; he has the ability to set up play going forward but can also put his foot in defensively when it's needed. OK we're not going to get Milner back, but that's the kind of player I think we should be looking at.

Will Hughes would be that ideal player

[villaglint]

Just read this on ESPN which seems to support my point.

 

Elsewhere, only Reading attempted fewer dribbles than Villa last season, and it's another area in which Kiyotake is adept. His average of 1.8 successful dribbles per game was better than that of any Villa player, while a success rate when attempting to beat defenders of 68.7% is another excellent statistic. Of the 92 players to complete at least 50 dribbles last season only seven could trump that figure.

[Feidhlim]

I like Hughes a lot but I reckon Lambert would like a midfielder who chips in with more goals and/or is a wee bit cheaper

[Shillzz]

 

 

Kagawa has mainly been played out of position at United to be honest. When he has been played in the hole, which is his best position, he has flourished in my opinion.

 

You can't assume a player wouldn't be able to deal with the Premier League because they're Japanese.

 

 

No you're right, you can't assume any player wouldn't be able to make it in the league because of where they're from, but that doesn't stop you from making a prediction.

 

On the subject of Kagawa - even he, the man himself, has acknowledged that he expected more of himself last year.

[PieFacE]

Having watched some videos of this player I really do hope we sign him. I think Weimann would absolutely thrive with him on the counter attack. Would be exciting to watch.

[norwegianvillain]

I agree with Con to some extent - i too think Bannan has/had massive potential, sadly for him we appointed a manager who played the ultimate destructive football, and at the same time Bannan did some really stupid stuff on his private. Bannan has shown us that he is not a professional footballer, and therefore he will never be successful at this club

 

Sorry for OT post

Edited August 9, 2013 by norwegianvillain

[ArteSuave]

If Kiyotake comes in and is anything like as productive as Bannan this season, he could be our best value signing since Ireland.

[KjParton]

A very "unreliable twitterer" is suggesting that FIFA lawyers are dealing with it now.

 

This is from an unreliable source and is most likely 100% incorrect. 

[Big_John_10]

A very "unreliable twitterer" is suggesting that FIFA lawyers are dealing with it now.

 

This is from an unreliable source and is most likely 100% incorrect.

If anything this unreliable source posted was true the press would be all over it. It would make a fantastic news story.

[Dante_Lockhart]

FIFA lawyers? What have I missed?

[Rob182]

I think it's the nonsense about him apparantly having an £8.5m release clause that, apparantly, we have bid and Nuremburg have, apparantly, rejected.

Even though Lambert said at the fans forum that we have enquired but not bid.

[Big_John_10]

FIFA lawyers? What have I missed?

Basically someone who claims to have information from inside the club and claims to have spoken to the players legal team, is now saying that because they ignored our bid of £8.5 million, which is his release clause fee, that FIFA lawyers are now involved to get this transfer done.

[AValon]

Its always been mooted that there IS a release clause......but do we know that as fact?

 

Too many variables in this to really pick out whats true and what is'nt.

 

All good fun though.

[PieFacE]

Its always been mooted that there IS a release clause......but do we know that as fact?

 

Too many variables in this to really pick out whats true and what is'nt.

 

All good fun though

The only thing we know as fact is that Paul Lambert said we haven't made a bid. All the other stuff is just pure speculation.

 

The whole FIFA thing is bollocks. If it was true it would be all over the papers like BJ10 said!