a m ole Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 16 hours ago, Dr_Pangloss said: ^^^ Knew you'd get triggered by that one, sorry to offend the Wayne Rooney fan club offended, fan club? you said something wrong and he corrected you. Simple. As for Man Utd record, you certainly can't achieve that by being "lucky". What absolute drivel. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 How does that contradict anything I said, I said friendlies and qualifiers, which your charts, if anything, backs up that point no? What your charts don't explore is that It's much easier to qualify in this day and age, you play a lot more qualifiers than in the past since the groups are bigger and full of relatively poorer teams and England's seeding has meant that in principle they have rarely had a difficult qualifying campaign in Rooney's stint. If you break down lot of the teams he has scored against in qualifiers you will see big names such as Estonia, Kazakhstan, Belarus, Andorra, Slovakia, Slovenia, San Marino and Lithuania. Anyway you're getting a bit too excited about that, the main point was that his performances in major tournaments have been very poor outside of Euro 2004, which is clearly the main thrust of my argument - all well and good scoring all of those goals but invariably not doing it at major tournaments definitely takes some shine off the record. In terms of being lucky to break the United record I'd say he is fortunate to have played for them for the past couple of seasons so on that basis and bit fortunate to have broken it. Reading and comprehension seems to be at an all time low on this site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 (edited) I can read perfectly fine thank you, stop trying to be patronising. You're discrediting Rooney's achievement without looking at the records of the players he has outscored. They all have easy games to play in, and easy teams to score against. That's the nature of seeding in International football. He's played poorly in recent tournaments but that that's also the nature of football, you're one of 11 players on the pitch. You seem to be taking an issue with people saying well done to Rooney, which is really strange, and only furthers the idea that some fans will be so quick to slate him and ignore his achievements because he 'let England down' or whatever. No one here is saying he's the best Man Utd goal scorer ever, best England goal scorer ever etc etc. They're just saying well done on an achievement. If that is partly down to his longevity at the club, who gives a ****? Edited January 8, 2017 by a m ole 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 3 minutes ago, a m ole said: I can read perfectly fine thank you, stop trying to be patronising. You're discrediting Rooney's achievement without looking at the records of the players he has outscored. They all have easy games to play in, and easy teams to score against. That's the nature of seeding in International football. He's played poorly in recent tournaments but that that's also the nature of football, you're one of 11 players on the pitch. You seem to be taking an issue with people saying well done to Rooney, which is really strange, and only furthers the idea that some fans will be so quick to slate him and ignore his achievements because he 'let England down' or whatever. No one here is saying he's the best Man Utd goal scorer ever, best England goal scorer ever etc etc. They're just saying well done on an achievement. If that is partly down to his longevity at the club, who gives a ****? And calling something "drivel" is not patronising, pot calling the kettle black. I don't have an issue with anyone saying anything good about Rooney, I merely posted an opinion (my initial post which not targeted at anyone) which seemed to solicit strong and borderline invective response from a couple of posters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 You said he's lucky to get the records he's got, which is nonsense. Nothing "borderline invective" in calling it so, jesus christ. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 8, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted January 8, 2017 19 hours ago, Dr_Pangloss said: Perhaps learn how to read in the first place? I mean, I'm not taking sides in the Roone debate, I really don't care enough. But the post Kurtsimonw quoted absolutely reads like you're referring to his england record. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 I'm no Rooney fan, but this argument against his achievement for England and Man United is completed floored. Which ever way you cut it, it's worthy of praise. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 (edited) It just doesn't sit right with me that Rooney has tbroken England's greatest ever footballer's goal scoring record for club and country. Not saying that Rooney hasn't been an outstanding footballer of his generation but too many failures in world cups and euros finals puts a blot on his legacy imo. Edited January 8, 2017 by PaulC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 He's been dismal in finals but which modern English player hasn't? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 1 hour ago, Stevo985 said: I mean, I'm not taking sides in the Roone debate, I really don't care enough. But the post Kurtsimonw quoted absolutely reads like you're referring to his england record. lol this is getting silly so I'll leave it here, but I clearly wasn't comparing his England record vs Charlton's England record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 He has underachieved at international level, certainly he should've done more at a few tournaments (2010 world cup which he came onto on the back of his best ever club season). Nothing new though for an England player to be excellent at club level and then be very mediocre at a major tournament. Club form though....he's won everything and been a major player for over 10 years which is not an easy thing to achieve. It's only in the last 18 months you can see the decline and now he's a bit partplayer who I expect to move this summer. Rooney's certainly the best english player I've seen come through in my lifetime. Problem as usual when he came through in 2002 "New Gazza/Pele" etc and then people see Ronaldo and Messi scoring 50 a season and asking why Rooney can't do that. The lad's had a very fine career, very similar to likes of Totti abdRaul who are certainly legends of the modern game. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHV Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 1 hour ago, PaulC said: It just doesn't sit right with me that Rooney has tbroken England's greatest ever footballer's goal scoring record for club and country. Not saying that Rooney hasn't been an outstanding footballer of his generation but too many failures in world cups and euros finals puts a blot on his legacy imo. England's greatest? Jimmy Greaves is England's greatest by some distance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 8, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted January 8, 2017 1 hour ago, Dr_Pangloss said: lol this is getting silly so I'll leave it here, but I clearly wasn't comparing his England record vs Charlton's England record. I believe you. I'm just saying that that was definitely how it sounded. So accusing Kurt and others of not being able to read as a result is a bit harsh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 1 hour ago, KHV said: England's greatest? Jimmy Greaves is England's greatest by some distance It's always difficult to quantify as obviously Greavesie had his issues in major tournaments like 1966. The best ones to me have to be the ones who've turned up in major tournaments...obviously the 66 boys are on a different level but in more recent times Gazza, Shearer, Owen and Gary Lineker spring to mind. I'd probably go for Lineker tbh....49 goals for England and top scorer in a world cup is not to be sniffed at...he wasn't far off in the 90 world cup either. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 17 minutes ago, VillaChris said: I'd probably go for Lineker tbh....49 goals for England and top scorer in a world cup is not to be sniffed at...he wasn't far off in the 90 world cup either. Lineker for me as well. A big game player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 2 hours ago, KHV said: England's greatest? Jimmy Greaves is England's greatest by some distance Maybe greatest striker but the greatest player imo is without doubt Bobby Charlton 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 He's broken the record, but I don't think anyone would seriously suggest he's our greatest ever striker. Certainly nobody has said that here. It's an accomplishment nevertheless though. Linekar stands out for me, but how many people saw the likes of Greaves or Charlton play? They were tremendous players for their time, but who knows how good they'd be in the modern game. It's impossible to really compare players across eras, so much has changed. Rooney might just about make it into the top 5. Maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 My answer would probably have to be Shearer. Scored multiple goals in all the tournaments he played in, scored in the big games. I was too young in '92, so first tournament I saw us play in was '96. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philwhitters Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Lingard has signed a new contract £95,000 a week. Quite staggering really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted January 13, 2017 Author Moderator Share Posted January 13, 2017 3 minutes ago, philwhitters said: Lingard has signed a new contract £95,000 a week. Quite staggering really. The big contracts to the big players I don't mind. They'll happen. But it's contracts like this one that really emphasise the gap between the haves and the have nots. Hard to fathom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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