Shillzz Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 I used to have the saying, "it only snows at christmas" but due to the global warming and unforseen weather patterns it would end up snowing more and more regularly. Best just to knock it on the head, because once you realise something like cocaine isn't half as bad as people make out then you're inhibitions about doing it start to disappear and over time you do it more and more often. A blanket "no thanks" was the only way forward for me. Pretty much bang on with how it was for me mate. Pretty much got my other half to thank for dragging me out of that one. My life was only going one way until she came along. A lucky escape if ever there was one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted August 7, 2012 VT Supporter Share Posted August 7, 2012 In the 60's & 70's, was everything pretty much fair game when it came to drugs?No. For one thing there was a much narrower range of stuff available than there is today. Cannabis and LSD (plus mushrooms) were prevalent, along with the usual pills (speed & downers). But relatively little cocaine and heroin unless you moved in certain circles. And none of today's designer drugs. Penalties (even for weed) were high, with imprisonment for possession of even a small offence quite possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted August 7, 2012 Moderator Share Posted August 7, 2012 Alcohol harm is always studied in the context of society, which is fine, because they're usually trying to put a number on the abuse of it. If you want to go down that road in this discussion too then fine, but it's pointless because we've been there before. I'm on about the non-abuse. I'm on about the fact that you can actually use it properly. There are situations where you can use alcohol properly and it does you zero damage. There is no scenario where you can use heroine and it does you zero damage. In fact there isn't even a scenario where you can smoke a cigarette and it does you zero damage. It's the ability to use it properly that means alcohol CAN be harmless. The abuses and the excesses are well-documented elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Alcohol harm is always studied in the context of society, which is fine, because they're usually trying to put a number on the abuse of it. If you want to go down that road in this discussion too then fine, but it's pointless because we've been there before. I'm on about the non-abuse. I'm on about the fact that you can actually use it properly. There are situations where you can use alcohol properly and it does you zero damage. There is no scenario where you can use heroine and it does you zero damage. In fact there isn't even a scenario where you can smoke a cigarette and it does you zero damage. It's the ability to use it properly that means alcohol CAN be harmless. The abuses and the excesses are well-documented elsewhere. I agree with you there. The point I am making is that there are also less harmful drugs than alcohol that are illegal. Exstasy for example, if you could get it from a licenced chemest in small manageable doses it would do less harm to punters than booze does. If you could buy a low dose pill that has a silmilar effect to drinking a pint people would be able to consume it with no ill affects at all, the same as with a pint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Sir Richard said this had cut the level of people taking heroin by 50% and allowed a greater focus on catching the criminals supplying substances. This was from way back in January, http://tinyurl.com/bnh7fsc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted August 7, 2012 Moderator Share Posted August 7, 2012 I agree with you there. The point I am making is that there are also less harmful drugs than alcohol that are illegal. Exstasy for example, if you could get it from a licenced chemest in small manageable doses it would do less harm to punters than booze does. If you could buy a low dose pill that has a silmilar effect to drinking a pint people would be able to consume it with no ill affects at all, the same as with a pint. OK I'll take your word there because I honestly wasn't aware that there was a safe dose of ecstasy. I'm just defending alcohol from the 'it's more dangerous than heroin' lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhan_Zhuang Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Unfortunately that argument is too simple because you could actually replace the word 'alcohol' in it with pretty much anything else. For example I find that if I was to eat or drink too much of anything, my body will eventually try to vomit it out. That doesn't make it a poison, it makes me a pig that doesn't know when to stop. If it was such a simple argument then why do people have such dificulty understanding the limitations of their mind, body, desires etc? As someone pointed out earlier people should learn to live in moderation; it is one of the wisest ways to be. Again, you're talking about someone who can't control it or doesn't know how to i.e. first time users. The point here is that if alcohol is controlled, it is safe. Only making it illegal would lessen its dangers and consequences of its use; whether that be domestic violence, death by misadventure, drink-driving all of these are as likely with short-term long-term use (which was your original point). Alcohol isn't the problem in and of itself, the user is the problem in your situation. This reminds me of the phrase "Guns don't kill people, people do" or something like that. Is that your line of thinking?! However, I think a tangent has been found. Initially you stated: "That's not true of alcohol which itself only becomes dangerous through consistent abuse." and based on what I said previously I think that the facts are alcohol can be as danerous to first time users as long-term. It clouds the mind and ability to think whether you are trying it for the first time or the hundredth. Hence the unforseen consequences of a person using alcohol for the first time are limitless and can have unfortunate conclusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted August 7, 2012 Moderator Share Posted August 7, 2012 Zhan, read my post further up. It says what I'm trying to say much better than I did in my original response to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LockStockVilla Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 It seems this thread turned into a halfway house today, thoroughly enjoyed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 What pisses me off is my "all or nothing" response to alcohol...I have difficulty controlling my urge to drink to put a buzz on every night...so I don't drink at all...but I miss out on some social things because I avoid bars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 What pisses me off is my "all or nothing" response to alcohol...I have difficulty controlling my urge to drink to put a buzz on every night...so I don't drink at all...but I miss out on some social things because I avoid bars. Get a good Buzz on, and then Just 'Nurse' a Pint to keep the buzz going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isgill88 Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 I don't have anything to add, but I really enjoyed the last 20 minutes or so reading that well-mannered, intelligent and thought-out debate about drugs. Well done everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PompeyVillan Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 I don't have anything to add, but I really enjoyed the last 20 minutes or so reading that well-mannered, intelligent and thought-out debate about drugs. Well done everyone. Agreed, I'm going to celebrate with a line of cocaine. It's incredibly morish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstonMartyn88 Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 What pisses me off is my "all or nothing" response to alcohol...I have difficulty controlling my urge to drink to put a buzz on every night...so I don't drink at all...but I miss out on some social things because I avoid bars. Get a good Buzz on, and then Just 'Nurse' a Pint to keep the buzz going. In a similar vein I always find I have to have a drink in my hand when I'm on the dancefloor in a club. Don't know why but I drink ridiculously quickly when I'm out so end up a) broke and usually falling over. Very annoying but I just feel odd when I'm dancing without a drink in my hand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 1. Heroin 2. Cocaine 3. Barbituates 4. Street methadone 5. Alcohol 6. Ketamine 7. Benzodiazepines 8. Amphetamine 9. Tobacco 10. Buprenorphine 11. Cannabis 12. Solvents 13. 4-MTA 14. LSD 15. Methylphenidate 16. Anabolic steroids 17. GHB 18. Ecstasy 19. Alykl nitrites 20. Khat That looks like a fairly average Saturday night. Though the khat takes an age to come on, so obviously it should be first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiggyrichard Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 What shall we debate today? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 What shall we debate today? Ennis or Pendleton? For me, Ennis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted August 8, 2012 Moderator Share Posted August 8, 2012 Does that have to be and either/or question? Both are fit as but in my view Ennis edges it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Does that have to be and either/or question? Wouldn't be much of a debate then though would it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irreverentad Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 After watching that documentary the other week, Pendleton seems like the type who would cry after sex. But hey maybe i'm doing it wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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