Stevo985 Posted February 5, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted February 5, 2020 It's a good thing all of these players he's bought and/or managed keep saving his job 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
It's Your Round Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 6 hours ago, villa4europe said: Sooooo that fan celebration.... He was ‘cock-a-hoop’! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 9 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: It's a good thing all of these players he's bought and/or managed keep saving his job He didn't buy Kodjia Luckily a player he bought cost him his job. Thank you Glenn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 5, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted February 5, 2020 Just now, Zatman said: He didn't buy Kodjia 10 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: It's a good thing all of these players he's bought and/or managed keep saving his job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 Think we'd all agree that he'd have a harder time getting results without the players he or someone else signed to the clubs he's managed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LakotaDakota Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 6 hours ago, villa4europe said: Sooooo that fan celebration.... Was definitely different. Can't say i've ever felt the need to whip the wee fella out and helicopter to celebrate a goal but a girl i was seeing at the time did erm give me a hand so to speak at the back of the holte during an especially dull 0-0 draw against wimbledon in the early 90's. One of those that comes up in the occasional "weird places you have had sex(ish)" talks from time to time 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 23 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: It's a good thing all of these players he's bought and/or managed keep saving his job 'cos he's lucky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Stevo985 said: It's a good thing all of these players he's bought and/or managed keep saving his job Wouldn't say it's particularly good or bad, but it is indicative of his short-term management style. You're only ever trying to eke out the bare minimum relying on moments of magic, and the achilles heel of this philosophy is that by the very nature of "moments of magic", you won't get them consistently. We saw this in 2017/18 with Snodgrass and Adomah. They were doing it time and again in the early to mid part of the season and getting us out of trouble with crucial winners and keeping us in the promotion hunt. Come the business end of the season they might as well have been Tonev and Bacuna, and did absolutely nothing when we needed a moment of magic in the playoffs. All we could muster was a Jedinak goal from a corner in 3 matches in the playoffs. Now if he had an actual philosophy on how to play football without relying on individual brilliance, a la our opponents in the final Fulham, it might have been a whole different ball game. Edited February 5, 2020 by Keyblade 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuartc445 Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 On 04/02/2020 at 15:36, LakotaDakota said: it's not like they are playing hugely entertaining football either though is it. In the 5 league games since jan 1st Sheff Utd have managed 13 shots on target, scoring 3 goals and had posession stats of 25, 47, 39, 33 & 39% Newcaste have also managed 13 shots on goal in their 5 games, scoring 4 goals and had posession stats of 23, 34, 30, 45 & 43%. Look remarkably similar considering one team are apparently playing really well & the other, shit Careful with posts like this @DCJonah will accuse you of being Alex Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 34 minutes ago, Stuartc445 said: Careful with posts like this @DCJonah will accuse you of being Alex Bruce Well that would be silly. There can't be more than one Alex Bruce. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 4 hours ago, Keyblade said: Wouldn't say it's particularly good or bad, but it is indicative of his short-term management style. You're only ever trying to eke out the bare minimum relying on moments of magic, and the achilles heel of this philosophy is that by the very nature of "moments of magic", you won't get them consistently. We saw this in 2017/18 with Snodgrass and Adomah. They were doing it time and again in the early to mid part of the season and getting us out of trouble with crucial winners and keeping us in the promotion hunt. Come the business end of the season they might as well have been Tonev and Bacuna, and did absolutely nothing when we needed a moment of magic in the playoffs. All we could muster was a Jedinak goal from a corner in 3 matches in the playoffs. Now if he had an actual philosophy on how to play football without relying on individual brilliance, a la our opponents in the final Fulham, it might have been a whole different ball game. It’s pretty incredible that Bruce can be criticised for managing a team that was scoring goals to get into the playoffs, and then also not scoring goals to win them in the same post Whatever next? Klopp lucky to win with late goals? Pep has Aguero papering over the cracks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 Just now, Genie said: It’s pretty incredible that Bruce can be criticised for managing a team that was scoring goals to get into the playoffs, and then also not scoring goals to win them in the same post Whatever next? Klopp lucky to win with late goals? Pep has Aguero papering over the cracks? That's what you got from that, really? Do you not remember that season? There was zero purpose to our play. Klopp and Pep's teams have clear identities and patterns of play. We had none. It got to the point where we were literally wondering what the hell we were doing on the training pitch. The players looked like strangers to each other, despite playing with each other for 2 seasons. We've seen under Klopp and Pep and even with us under Smith, inferior players come into the side and perform seamlessly in their systems and the teams are still able to get results. We pretty much got to a cup final this season that way. I don't think we've ever got past the first round of any cup competition under Bruce. There's a marked difference between you star players producing the goods and literally having no other plan than hoping they pull off a worldie or 2 to win you football matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 13 minutes ago, Keyblade said: Do you not remember that season? There was zero purpose to our play. Klopp and Pep's teams have clear identities and patterns of play. We had none. It got to the point where we were literally wondering what the hell we were doing on the training pitch. The players looked like strangers to each other, despite playing with each other for 2 seasons.. How can we get to finish 4th in the league table with a 7 game winning run in the new year, the Play-off final with “zero purpose” and players looking like strangers. It’s funny because that’s exactly how we looked before Bruce came in. It wasn’t pretty, and there’s a strong argument that he should have done better with what he had, but some of the claims people still make are mind boggling. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 He did it with good players, he brought in leaders and players that on their day could win us points single handedly The statement that we had no purpose can be reworded as identity or shape or style or another football cliche and it would be correct because we didn't We didn't play counter attacking, we didn't play possession football or tiki taka, we didn't play long ball to a target man, we didn't necessarily play wide (but that's where our quality was) we weren't a defend and use set pieces style team... We just kind of kicked a ball around and hoped for the best 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 1 minute ago, Genie said: How can we get to finish 4th in the league table with a 7 game winning run in the new year, the Play-off final with “zero purpose” and players looking like strangers. It’s funny because that’s exactly how we looked before Bruce came in. It wasn’t pretty, and there’s a strong argument that he should have done better with what he had, but some of the claims people still make are mind boggling. Because we had far superior players to the entire division. It didn't exactly require tactical masterpieces to trounce the likes of Rotherham or Burton or Barnsley. Put Bruce in charge of City or PSG or something and I'm sure he can get a decent winning run going. It's not indicative of any sort of philosophy or footballing identity. If you can describe our approach to games and our usual tactics under Bruce, I'm all ears. We also went on a 7 game losing run under him for what it's worth. We were very streaky, precisely because of his tactic of relying on individual brilliance. Apart from the truly world class players who play at a consistently high level, most players have patches of form, good and bad. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 6 minutes ago, villa4europe said: We didn't play counter attacking, we didn't play possession football or tiki taka, we didn't play long ball to a target man, we didn't necessarily play wide (but that's where our quality was) we weren't a defend and use set pieces style team... We just kind of kicked a ball around and hoped for the best This is exactly it. As an anecdote, I remember I used to watch Villa with my dad occasionally who's more of a global football fan and doesn't really support any team. I'd be hyping us up for a weeks as this very good team, chasing promotion etc. We get around to watch the games, and Villa would embarrass me each time. He'd just look at me like "Seriously, this is what you've been going on about? You can barely string 3 passes together. Did you just sign all these players in January" etc., and I'd just be sitting there like "b-but we're 5th in the table". It's always worse when we're playing teams like Brentford or Fulham who just play us off the park too. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 14 hours ago, Keyblade said: That's what you got from that, really? Do you not remember that season? There was zero purpose to our play. Klopp and Pep's teams have clear identities and patterns of play. We had none. It got to the point where we were literally wondering what the hell we were doing on the training pitch. The players looked like strangers to each other, despite playing with each other for 2 seasons. We've seen under Klopp and Pep and even with us under Smith, inferior players come into the side and perform seamlessly in their systems and the teams are still able to get results. We pretty much got to a cup final this season that way. I don't think we've ever got past the first round of any cup competition under Bruce. There's a marked difference between you star players producing the goods and literally having no other plan than hoping they pull off a worldie or 2 to win you football matches. We’ve seen under Klopp and Pep.......two of the worlds best Managers managing the clubs in the top 1% of world football. And you wonder why we, in the Championship under Steve Bruce didn’t look as good? Wow man. And I’d love to know this ‘system’ we have under Smith because as far as I see it we give the ball to Jack and hope he does something magical, oh that and put in loads of crosses aimlessly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 1 hour ago, bannedfromHandV said: And I’d love to know this ‘system’ we have under Smith because as far as I see it we give the ball to Jack and hope he does something magical, oh that and put in loads of crosses aimlessly. Very true. I’m not saying here that we should sack Smith for big Sam, but when it is ever suggested people will say “no way, I’d rather be relegated under Smith than watch a SA team!” Then think, our current football is pretty dire aside from Jacks runs. It’s not really much to risk really is it? I don’t think I could say hand on heart that the football is much better under Smith than it was under Bruce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Genie said: Very true. I’m not saying here that we should sack Smith for big Sam, but when it is ever suggested people will say “no way, I’d rather be relegated under Smith than watch a SA team!” Then think, our current football is pretty dire aside from Jacks runs. It’s not really much to risk really is it? I don’t think I could say hand on heart that the football is much better under Smith than it was under Bruce. Difference being we were (on paper) one of the best teams and squads in the Championship while in the PL we are one of the weakest sides up against superior players and managers. If you didn't think the football was better under Smith in the Championship than it was under Bruce then fair enough, but I disagree. Edit: this should probably be in the Bruce or Smith thread Edited February 6, 2020 by sne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStagMan Posted February 6, 2020 Share Posted February 6, 2020 Oh Christ. The Steve Bruce debate is STILL raging on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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