AndJo Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Does anyone else think there is something hidden behind the scenes which is seriously putting buyers/investors off? Hard to believe teams like Swansea and Palace are seen as better investments than us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Does anyone else think there is something hidden behind the scenes which is seriously putting buyers/investors off? The insane amount of wages we spend on non playing staff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DelboyVilla Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Paul Lambert and a 4 year contract? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Does anyone else think there is something hidden behind the scenes which is seriously putting buyers/investors off? Hard to believe teams like Swansea and Palace are seen as better investments than us I think it's something to do with the £150m price tag he's put on the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I think if owners are seeing other teams as better investments its because of the asking price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dn1982 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I'd say other clubs are seen as cheaper options not better. If you have to significantly lower your price for a buyer for me that buyer hasn't got enough funds to get us where we want to go. When you see clubs like Spurs touted around for a supposed billion!! We are more than worth £150m. If we was to lower the price we probably would get loads of interest but I'd say most would be looking to make a quick return and we'd be back in limbo again before we know it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I'd say other clubs are seen as cheaper options not better. If you have to significantly lower your price for a buyer for me that buyer hasn't got enough funds to get us where we want to go. When you see clubs like Spurs touted around for a supposed billion!! We are more than worth £150m. If we was to lower the price we probably would get loads of interest but I'd say most would be looking to make a quick return and we'd be back in limbo again before we know it. Spot on. We are in the proverbial cleft stick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ThunderPower_14 Posted October 31, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted October 31, 2014 I'd also suggest that other clubs need less of a cultural change to be competitive. We are just ratshit at every level of the club at the moment. You'd have to clear just about every member of the backroom staff out and do a huge assessment on the squad before clearing out lots of players. It's a massive task that would take years. We are a restoration project and in football that basically means a bottomless money pit for the first few years. Compare that to a club like Swansea, West Ham or Southampton or even **** West Brom who are already pretty well run and the difference is massive. I read yesterday that West Ham were getting Umbro as a kit supplier from next season, had a look at their squad, their manager and their position on the table and found myself feeling really jealous of West Ham. West Ham for **** sake. What a **** disgrace. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suttonpaul Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 We're financially outpaced by the likes of Swansea, Southampton and West Brom. How does that even happen from the base level of 3 consecutive 6th placed finishes? Why can Spurs and Everton go from strength to strength while we have been lucky to avoid relegation for the past 3 seasons? We've been absolutely run into the ground. If we go down we'll be more likely to do a Leeds than Newcastle, because we just wont invest the sort of money required to get back up. I want Lambert out but while we continue to be run so poorly and fail to compete financially with even our relegation rivals, changing the manager at this stage would be like shuffling the deck chairs on the titanic. The simple answer is the wages we were paying to players that were ageing and length of contract. Generally when we spent on young players under mon we got good value from them in terms of performance and sell on value but where we brought the 27 plus players we did not. Being lumbered with players on those wages on long contracts is what cut the spending. Houlier and lambert have had similar money mon in terms of fees per year but lambert has had to spread it around to have numbers In The squad and low wages comparatively. The average wage of a PL player is 3m a year we don't pay many that ergo we don't have a top ten side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 When you see clubs like Spurs touted around for a supposed billion!! We are more than worth £150m. Seeing as the current owner has spent easily over a hundred million pounds to tread water in the league since 2006, the financial value of the club is only what someone's prepared to pay for it. It's no cash cow. No idea what Tottingehamm's balance sheet looks like, but it's a safe bet that that awful club's turnover dwarfs ours. They are based in London. The fact that they may be priced at a billion is no indication of Villa's value: It's not a linear graph with football or anything else, fashionable crap is worth way more than slightly less-fashionable crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted October 31, 2014 Moderator Share Posted October 31, 2014 Randy Lerner is like a chameleon he has changed...The first 4 years were very much different from the last 4 years....The first 4 were not austerity....the second 4 years was and very much as a result of the problems attributed to buying and selling of players in the that period. If I was comparing Aston villa with Everton.....I would be more inclined to attribute their success over us on the basis of their managers than the owners. If you say that they have spent more on individuals than us, you would be right.... but is that due to the prudency of the managers sales or the chairmans pocket? No I know that the first 4 years weren't but as I've already stated, it was the lack of financial control in those years by Lerner that set the conditions under which the managers were forced to work for the next 4 years. Terrible management of the club by Lerner. That means Moyes was provided with a far more stable environment in which a football club could be built. Yes the success Everton had on the pitch was down to Moyes but I'm baffled how anyone can't see the different between how Everton and Villa have been run and the fact that it has a barring on what happens on the football side of the club. You talk about prudence of managers but it isn't for managers to budget/set budgets that is for those above them, if you keep giving any manager money he is likely to go and spend it unless its Wenger obviously. Yes our managers have wasted money compared to Moyes but that is going to happen when you chop and change players and when you lurch in styles of manager from O'Neill to Houllier to McLeish. TRO, (not looking to point score so please don't view it as such although based on our discussion to date I'm sure you won't) I just wanted to pick this discussion up from a few pages back. You may or may not have seen the latest Everton financial results posted, if not take a look they make for startling viewing in comparison to ours. I won't post them here as its not a thread about them but you can find them easily enough. When you read them though you can see the level of financial control that has been exercised since Kenwright took over and which was so conspicuous in its absence in the early years of Randy Lerner. I would also argue that the seemingly widely held belief, that the poor financial management of the club ended with the O'Neill departure is wrong and that it continued through the short lived and ill fated Houllier era and McLeish appointment as the signing of Bent (yes I know we needed it and he kept us up) and later Given on a 5 year deal were, in the wider context of the finances of the club, utter madness. Just take a look at their profit, their wage to revenue ratio and the other factors in their results which contribute to them being far far better run than us over a prolonged period of time. Yes, I accept that some will argue that their financial performance is a direct consequence of their managerial appointments and performances and without question there is an element of truth in that. However more true I believe, is that in a modern football club, the financial platform, control and resources are in some ways more important than the manager at the helm and dictate or strongly influence the impact a manager can have. We've had a succession of managers now that have been tasked with maintaining PL football, rebuilding a squad, reducing wages and net spend. That is what I'm talking about when I talk about the condition set by those running a club for those tasked with running the football team. Oh and while having to push numerous players out the doors on free transfer's because they couldn't be sold and seemingly couldn't be afforded any more. That is without getting into all the behind the scenes like dealing with contracts and contract extensions, player sales and purchases or scouts and scouting budgets. Would Everton have allowed themselves to get into the situation we are with Delph? I rather suspect not. I'm not absolving Lambert from blame or any who went before him but the conditions each manager have worked under have been significant factors for each and a consistent issue throughout Lerner's time here. That is why I have long held him chiefly responsible for our performance and demise and will continue to do so, I don't expect everyone to agree entirely or even at all in some cases but hopefully at least you now understand my position a little more and the things I think that support it. As I say, take a look at those Everton results they will make for an interesting comparison when ours come out early next year. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 but it's a safe bet that that awful club's turnover dwarfs ours. They are based in London. The fact that they may be priced at a billion is no indication of Villa's value: It's not a linear graph with football or anything else, fashionable crap is worth way more than slightly less-fashionable crap. Yep Spurs turnover dwarfs ours and they have a big season ticket waiting list. Also the land/assets they own would be worth a huge amount because of the location in London. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 My friend has told me the party who first showed interest are now looking at us again. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyAnty Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 My friend has told me the party who first showed interest are now looking at us again. Who is this party? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 My friend has told me the party who first showed interest are now looking at us again. Who is this party? He just said an American investment firm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DelboyVilla Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Randy Lerner is like a chameleon he has changed...The first 4 years were very much different from the last 4 years....The first 4 were not austerity....the second 4 years was and very much as a result of the problems attributed to buying and selling of players in the that period. If I was comparing Aston villa with Everton.....I would be more inclined to attribute their success over us on the basis of their managers than the owners. If you say that they have spent more on individuals than us, you would be right.... but is that due to the prudency of the managers sales or the chairmans pocket? No I know that the first 4 years weren't but as I've already stated, it was the lack of financial control in those years by Lerner that set the conditions under which the managers were forced to work for the next 4 years. Terrible management of the club by Lerner. That means Moyes was provided with a far more stable environment in which a football club could be built. Yes the success Everton had on the pitch was down to Moyes but I'm baffled how anyone can't see the different between how Everton and Villa have been run and the fact that it has a barring on what happens on the football side of the club. You talk about prudence of managers but it isn't for managers to budget/set budgets that is for those above them, if you keep giving any manager money he is likely to go and spend it unless its Wenger obviously. Yes our managers have wasted money compared to Moyes but that is going to happen when you chop and change players and when you lurch in styles of manager from O'Neill to Houllier to McLeish. TRO, (not looking to point score so please don't view it as such although based on our discussion to date I'm sure you won't) I just wanted to pick this discussion up from a few pages back. You may or may not have seen the latest Everton financial results posted, if not take a look they make for startling viewing in comparison to ours. I won't post them here as its not a thread about them but you can find them easily enough. When you read them though you can see the level of financial control that has been exercised since Kenwright took over and which was so conspicuous in its absence in the early years of Randy Lerner. I would also argue that the seemingly widely held belief, that the poor financial management of the club ended with the O'Neill departure is wrong and that it continued through the short lived and ill fated Houllier era and McLeish appointment as the signing of Bent (yes I know we needed it and he kept us up) and later Given on a 5 year deal were, in the wider context of the finances of the club, utter madness. Just take a look at their profit, their wage to revenue ratio and the other factors in their results which contribute to them being far far better run than us over a prolonged period of time. Yes, I accept that some will argue that their financial performance is a direct consequence of their managerial appointments and performances and without question there is an element of truth in that. However more true I believe, is that in a modern football club, the financial platform, control and resources are in some ways more important than the manager at the helm and dictate or strongly influence the impact a manager can have. We've had a succession of managers now that have been tasked with maintaining PL football, rebuilding a squad, reducing wages and net spend. That is what I'm talking about when I talk about the condition set by those running a club for those tasked with running the football team. Oh and while having to push numerous players out the doors on free transfer's because they couldn't be sold and seemingly couldn't be afforded any more. That is without getting into all the behind the scenes like dealing with contracts and contract extensions, player sales and purchases or scouts and scouting budgets. Would Everton have allowed themselves to get into the situation we are with Delph? I rather suspect not. I'm not absolving Lambert from blame or any who went before him but the conditions each manager have worked under have been significant factors for each and a consistent issue throughout Lerner's time here. That is why I have long held him chiefly responsible for our performance and demise and will continue to do so, I don't expect everyone to agree entirely or even at all in some cases but hopefully at least you now understand my position a little more and the things I think that support it. As I say, take a look at those Everton results they will make for an interesting comparison when ours come out early next year. So it's Lerner's fault we were rubbish against QPR? The only way it's Lerner's fault is he is the one who has employed Lambert for the past two and half years whilst dishing up dire turgid football week in week out? Trent will you ever admitt that the product on the pitch is the responsibility of the current manager? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted October 31, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted October 31, 2014 Did you even read his post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dn1982 Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 After seeing Evertons resuits I think it shows if we had an enthused Lerner with a proactive CEO (hopefully this is Fox but time will tell) we can easily increase revenue and build a competitive squad on a reasonable budget. Lambert needs to show a lot more on the playing side to be the one who completes the rebuild and I don't think he has it in him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villan4Life Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) Read in The Sun today in a 2 page article that American baseball owners have turned all their attention to buying English Football clubs because of the decline of baseball and the rise of football (soccer) in the states!! Few of the owners may look towards Villa. Edited October 31, 2014 by Villan4Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villan4Life Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 From Today's Sun: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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