The Randy Lerner thread

[AshVilla]

Lerner had no choice but to reinvest the Benteke and Delph money to protect his investment

If we hadn't reinvested the money we'd be playing championship football for certain next season

He does nothing but the bare minimum every season

Edited September 5, 2015 by AshVilla

[lexicon]

That post is a mixture of 'yawn' and 'lol', Ash. 

[sexbelowsound]

That post is a mixture of 'yawn' and 'lol', Ash. 

How so?

[lexicon]

This whole 'protecting his investment' epithet is nonsense. It's like saying - 'he's just doing his job'. What else is he supposed to do? Why is this put out in a negative light? (that's the yawn part)

The 'lol' part is this idea of 'the bare minimum'. We signed loads of players, hired new back-room staff to reinvigorate our scouting and approach to signing players and we obviously did a lot more than 'the bare minimum'. The bare minimum is an awfully vague phrase anyway. 

It's just such an awful post. Makes me embarrassed to be a Villa fan. 

[KHV]

Lerner had no choice but to reinvest the Benteke and Delph money to protect his investment

If we hadn't reinvested the money we'd be playing championship football for certain next season

He does nothing but the bare minimum every season

In the last 12 months we have appointed Tom Fox as CEO, appointed a new CCO, appointed a Sporting Director, replaced Lambert with Sherwood, appointed a new backroom staff, rebuilt the entire 1st team with 12 players out and 13 in. Id say more has gone on at Aston Villa in the last year than at any other club so to suggest the bare minimum is being done is a little unfair IMO

[Stevo985]

Lerner had no choice but to reinvest the Benteke and Delph money to protect his investment

If we hadn't reinvested the money we'd be playing championship football for certain next season

He does nothing but the bare minimum every season

He's trying to sell the club. What do you expect?

I don't like the lack of investment, but until Lerner sells, that's all he's going to do. Keep us in the league.

If we achieve something on top of that then great. But Lerner won't be ploughing money in to make it happen.

[kurtsimonw]

So both Randy and Levy are playing financial shenanigans

Randy: Bleeding the club dry to pay off his debts... something worse than a relatively empty space in a region containing an overdensity of trees!

Levy: Hmmm, surprised by this one (Bale does bias it)... they are going doing a new stadium thing so maybe they're saving/leveraging up for that

Errr what?

[VillanousOne]

I don't hate Lerner, i'm disappointed in how things have gone under him - but I can't solely blame him for the bad managerial decisions and transfer policies that have seen us circle the bowl for what feels like an eternity.

But it feels like the circus has to some degree ended with the appointments of Fox and Sherwood and the other staff and scouts around them.

We've spent more this pre-season than we probably did under MON (well comparatively), the outgoing fees and wages have pretty much all been reinvested. I have the feeling we had another 10-15mil to invest on another player, but probably not enough money in wages available. We needed to get rid of some more dead wood, we failed to do that.

I feel if we start to stabilize and do better and no new owner comes into play, Randy will step up. I just don't think he knows what he wants to do at the moment, i think he wants another crack at succeeding but feels responsible for our failures and wants to give another a chance to do better.

 

 

 

 

[avfc1982]

He may not have put much money in the club but we're in a much place under Lerner as a business than we would have been under Deadly.

This is the cut and shut of it.

All I really care about is where we are and where we could go in the future. We've bought well this window, got an exciting team together - not everyone we wanted but then how often does that happen to any team?

I find all this hatred and bile for Lerner, funny and pathetic in equal measures, truth being told. 

So you've enjoyed the embarrassments and humiliations of the last 5 years then?

[HanoiVillan]

He may not have put much money in the club but we're in a much place under Lerner as a business than we would have been under Deadly.

This is the cut and shut of it.

All I really care about is where we are and where we could go in the future. We've bought well this window, got an exciting team together - not everyone we wanted but then how often does that happen to any team?

I find all this hatred and bile for Lerner, funny and pathetic in equal measures, truth being told. 

So you've enjoyed the embarrassments and humiliations of the last 5 years then?

Is that supposed to be a fair summary of what he said?

[AvfcTheObsession]

I'd be willing to bet a lot of money we don't finish above Everton, big gulf in class between us and them!

There really isn't big gulf in class between Everton and us. The only difference is that they have a decent striker and we don't. In midfield and defence they are no better than us.

I'm sorry but that's rubbish. Their first choice backline is Coleman Stones Jagielka and Baines. Compared to Bacuna Richards Clark and Amavi. Yet that's no better than ours? Midfield they have Barry McCarthy and Barkley, but that's not better than Westwood Sanchez and Gueye? 

[maqroll]

Half those Everton players have grey hair

[Dodgyknees]

When our players settle, we will be fighting for top 8 (depending on how Gestede and Ayew get on).

If it wasn't for the Benteke money though, we'd still be miles behind Everton and others.

[TRO]

I want a better Owner in ......Rather than wanting him out.

There is a subtle difference between

wanting him out and seeing what comes in.

I have seen the Kumars, Wheldon, Young etc from not too far from us.

We need to be relatively sure of what we get before we get excited.

but remember this there is not an owner alive  Oligarch or Sheik that will continuously personally fund poor signings.....If you think otherwise you are deluding yourselves.

These rich benefactors, just give a manager an opportunity to buy, they don't guarantee anything.....Thats the expertise of the manager and his staff.

Edited September 7, 2015 by TRO

[DCJonah]

He may not have put much money in the club but we're in a much place under Lerner as a business than we would have been under Deadly.

is this not mainly down to health and age reasons though? Because for the majority of premier league seasons under Doug, we were not in debt and finishing top half on a regular basis. I'd also guess that less teams were earning more money than us each season, as we seem to have dropped in that respect under Lerner.

[OutByEaster?]

He may not have put much money in the club but we're in a much place under Lerner as a business than we would have been under Deadly.

is this not mainly down to health and age reasons though? Because for the majority of premier league seasons under Doug, we were not in debt and finishing top half on a regular basis. I'd also guess that less teams were earning more money than us each season, as we seem to have dropped in that respect under Lerner.

I think they're different worlds, finances have moved on an awful lot since Doug's times and indeed a fair bit between now and when Lerner bought in. I think Lerner thought at the time that he'd be able to put this club into the champions league for an investment of £20m a season and that once he was there, that £20m wouldn't be needed any more. Within ten years, the game added another zero to those numbers and became beyond what Lerner could afford to do.

In some ways, since he decided to sell the club, he's become a better owner - as a caretaker with a desire to ensure a stable business, he's more effective than as an owner that wanted to get involved and make things happen - he's put better people in place, they're making good decisions and he's letting them get on with it; everything a good owner should do. 

There have almost been three ages to Lerner - the first, where he had an ambition and the sort of money that mattered back then; our lost opportunity. The second where he floundered in trying to figure out what he wanted, what he was doing and what the point of it all was, and this final act, where I think he's quite sensibly managing an asset that's for sale. The outstanding question mark is to how long this third act can hold.

As a final point, and one that should be repeated every single time this comparison is made - Lerner has invested/lost/wasted around £200m of his own/his families money in this football club - Doug Ellis never ever put a single penny of his own money into it.

Health and age notwithstanding, the game had moved on from owners like Doug, the age of local businessmen was over and he could no longer afford to be involved - that had been true for a decade before he left and it was becoming more and more acutely obvious as time went on - the same is possibly true for Lerner, but at least he has the good sense to have noticed and to be trying to make an exit. 

 

[DCJonah]

Good post and I don't really disagree with it, I know things have changed but as a business I don't see why we're so much better. For the most part under Lerner I think we've been run much worse. Tom Fox has said we haven't taken advantage of increasing commercial income and we seem to have allowed more teams to start bringing in more money than us each year. And we have had recent years where money has been owed from the club to the owner. 

Edited September 6, 2015 by DCJonah

[avfc1982am]

He may not have put much money in the club but we're in a much place under Lerner as a business than we would have been under Deadly.

is this not mainly down to health and age reasons though? Because for the majority of premier league seasons under Doug, we were not in debt and finishing top half on a regular basis. I'd also guess that less teams were earning more money than us each season, as we seem to have dropped in that respect under Lerner.

I think they're different worlds, finances have moved on an awful lot since Doug's times and indeed a fair bit between now and when Lerner bought in. I think Lerner thought at the time that he'd be able to put this club into the champions league for an investment of £20m a season and that once he was there, that £20m wouldn't be needed any more. Within ten years, the game added another zero to those numbers and became beyond what Lerner could afford to do.

In some ways, since he decided to sell the club, he's become a better owner - as a caretaker with a desire to ensure a stable business, he's more effective than as an owner that wanted to get involved and make things happen - he's put better people in place, they're making good decisions and he's letting them get on with it; everything a good owner should do. 

There have almost been three ages to Lerner - the first, where he had an ambition and the sort of money that mattered back then; our lost opportunity. The second where he floundered in trying to figure out what he wanted, what he was doing and what the point of it all was, and this final act, where I think he's quite sensibly managing an asset that's for sale. The outstanding question mark is to how long this third act can hold.

As a final point, and one that should be repeated every single time this comparison is made - Lerner has invested/lost/wasted around £200m of his own/his families money in this football club - Doug Ellis never ever put a single penny of his own money into it.

Health and age notwithstanding, the game had moved on from owners like Doug, the age of local businessmen was over and he could no longer afford to be involved - that had been true for a decade before he left and it was becoming more and more acutely obvious as time went on - the same is possibly true for Lerner, but at least he has the good sense to have noticed and to be trying to make an exit. 

 

Great post. The thing people need to realise is exactly what lerner has already pumped into our club with absolutely no return. 10 years ago he had the funds to play the premiership owner game and now after a catalogue of poor decisions he just doesn't have the clout to continually throw good money after bad. He chased a dream and fell short mainly through being badly advised, and although we have had 5 years of misery and uncertainty I personally will never cry over the lack of investment as he has invested far beyond what the previous owner did into our club in monetary terms. 

My gripe is with poor decision making regarding the management of the team and backroom staff, and since the beginning of the year it appears measures are being taken to ensure these poor decisions are rectified. That is enough for me at the current time, sure we can all moan about what we ain't got but equally we could be owned by someone far worse than Lerner. I would just be happy this season with a team that stabilises our status in the league and if new owners are just around the corner then great, if not we crack on and improve with what we have. It really is that simple at the moment. 

[DCJonah]

The thing people need to realise is exactly what lerner has already pumped into our club with absolutely no return

This keeps being said as some sort of badge of honour. Firstly, no one forced him to purchase a premier league club. And secondly, what returns should he have? Do you believe he should be taking money out and making money from the club? Surely when you buy a club, the financial return comes from when you sell the club, and that's to be seen how he does on that. And I'd add that the price he gets for the club will be effected by his poor decision making, which has led to poor performances on the pitch.

[ozvillafan]

This keeps being said as some sort of badge of honour. Firstly, no one forced him to purchase a premier league club. And secondly, what returns should he have? Do you believe he should be taking money out and making money from the club?

Perhaps that question should be aimed at Doug. Our best chance to move on was under him. Lerner had 1 chance... and, sadly,  MON as manager.

 

Surely when you buy a club, the financial return comes from when you sell the club, and that's to be seen how he does on that. And I'd add that the price he gets for the club will be effected by his poor decision making, which has led to poor performances on the pitch.

True. But I also think you'll find the pool of possible owners has diminished somewhat. When clubs spend $80 mill on a teenager - what hope do you have to compete unless you are an oligarch?