jimmygreaves Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 11 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Surely a prohibitive favourite, since a] she is really well-known, b] her father was the governor and is Arkansas' second-most famous living former politician, and c] it's a deep-red state. I don't think it has much to do with the candidate any more. Just the "team" they say they represent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted January 26, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted January 26, 2021 Just now, jimmygreaves said: I don't think it has much to do with the candidate any more. Just the "team" they say they represent. Just as it is over here. And it's at least partly due to social media. Back in the day, people may have discussed their voting behaviour with a few friends down the pub, but it was largely a private matter, of no great interest to the wider world. The current trend is to nail your colours to the mast on Facebook, and treat it like supporting a sports team - complete with aggressive opposition to the 'other side'. And once you've gone down that path, you're unlikely to admit to a change of heart - to the world or even to yourself. You're either on Team Blue or Team Red, and there's no nuance, no middle ground, no going back. It's a worrying development. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 4 hours ago, AXD said: Would you care to elaborate? I know it says ‘borderline’ but I would like to know why you feel it being close to fascism. Fascism is the marriage of corporate and state. The goose stepping nonsense is far beyond that and played again and again for us to obscure the reality of the closeness of modern societies to the definition of fascism. Mandatory voting is the forced endorsement of those in power by the population. Given the neo-liberal doctrine by which things currently run (see the current Davos goings on), this in no way empowers the people, but simply results in a nice frock on a pig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post StefanAVFC Posted January 26, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 26, 2021 In this thread: "Encouraging voting is fascist" Also in this thread "Armed riots against the US Capitol, fine" 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted January 26, 2021 Moderator Share Posted January 26, 2021 3 minutes ago, villakram said: Fascism is the marriage of corporate and state If anything, that is communism 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 2 minutes ago, bickster said: If anything, that is communism Go read some history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desensitized43 Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 I know the question will have been asked many times in relation to Donald Trump...but is this normal? Setting up an "Office of the former president" complete with what looks to a rip off of the presidential seal (is he allowed to use that anymore!?) https://news.sky.com/story/donald-trump-opens-his-office-of-the-former-president-in-florida-12199271 Quote Donald Trump has begun his new venture following his stint in the White House - opening an office that will handle his duties as a former president. Mr Trump has opened the 'Office of the Former President' in Florida, which will handle his duties in his official capacity as an ex-commander-in-chief, as well as aiming to further his administration's agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted January 26, 2021 Moderator Share Posted January 26, 2021 23 minutes ago, desensitized43 said: I know the question will have been asked many times in relation to Donald Trump...but is this normal? Setting up an "Office of the former president" complete with what looks to a rip off of the presidential seal (is he allowed to use that anymore!?) https://news.sky.com/story/donald-trump-opens-his-office-of-the-former-president-in-florida-12199271 Completely normal, every ex-president has one. It is tax-payer funded. One of the points of the Senate Trial is to remove from him his rights as a former President, like his $200,00 a year pension, the funding for his former Presidents Office, His $1mil a year travel allowance etc. If he's convicted by the Senate, they can remove these from him, the only thing they can't remove is his Secret Service attachment, he can thank Obama for that, as prior to Obama's Executive Order, they could remove that too. Former Presidents are still entitled to security briefings etc, this is one of the purposes of the Office of the Former President. The really ironic thing is he can build a Presidential Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted January 26, 2021 Moderator Share Posted January 26, 2021 25 minutes ago, villakram said: Go read some history. I have and lets get something straight. FIrstly, Mussolini was a believer in Marxist Economic Theory and secondly that means the state taking over control of buisness and NOT business taking over the State 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desensitized43 Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 6 minutes ago, bickster said: Completely normal, every ex-president has one. It is tax-payer funded. One of the points of the Senate Trial is to remove from him his rights as a former President, like his $200,00 a year pension, the funding for his former Presidents Office, His $1mil a year travel allowance etc. If he's convicted by the Senate, they can remove these from him, the only thing they can't remove is his Secret Service attachment, he can thank Obama for that, as prior to Obama's Executive Order, they could remove that too. Former Presidents are still entitled to security briefings etc, this is one of the purposes of the Office of the Former President. The really ironic thing is he can build a Presidential Library Wow, didn't know that. Amazing that they'd legislate to allow (and fund) an ex-president to continue to shout from the sidelines. Especially when he could run again in 4 years - impeachment not withstanding. They're basically paying for him to go on campaign for next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted January 26, 2021 Moderator Share Posted January 26, 2021 1 minute ago, desensitized43 said: Wow, didn't know that. Amazing that they'd legislate to allow (and fund) an ex-president to continue to shout from the sidelines. Especially when he could run again in 4 years - impeachment not withstanding. They're basically paying for him to go on campaign for next time. That isn't what they are doing. There will be rules as to what the state funding can be used for. But this being Trump he could but in American political funding terms the money is chicken feed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted January 26, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted January 26, 2021 36 minutes ago, villakram said: Go read some history. You're wrong, @bickster's right. I have a degree in International History and Politics, btw. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Paddywhack Posted January 26, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 26, 2021 14 minutes ago, mjmooney said: You're wrong, @bickster's right. I have a degree in International History and Politics, btw. That's what we call a Mike drop. 2 1 16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AXD Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 21 minutes ago, villakram said: Fascism is the marriage of corporate and state. The goose stepping nonsense is far beyond that and played again and again for us to obscure the reality of the closeness of modern societies to the definition of fascism. Mandatory voting is the forced endorsement of those in power by the population. Given the neo-liberal doctrine by which things currently run (see the current Davos goings on), this in no way empowers the people, but simply results in a nice frock on a pig. How is that? Would politicians say 'everyone voted and I won, so they must like what I'm doing' as oppossed to the current 'people voted and I won, so they must like what I'm doing'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MessiWillSignForVilla Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 1 hour ago, bickster said: I have and lets get something straight. FIrstly, Mussolini was a believer in Marxist Economic Theory and secondly that means the state taking over control of buisness and NOT business taking over the State Is this strictly true? I'm happy to be corrected (and this may be something for another thread) but I thought that whilst Mussolini was originally a Socialist, by the time he had founded his newspaper and party, he'd denounced orthodox Marxism and deemed it a failure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 2 hours ago, bickster said: I have and lets get something straight. FIrstly, Mussolini was a believer in Marxist Economic Theory and secondly that means the state taking over control of buisness and NOT business taking over the State Yeah, but go and read some other history.....innit...... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted January 26, 2021 Moderator Share Posted January 26, 2021 I found this quite a fascinating read if you have a spare 15-20 minutes Quote How Early Trump Supporters Feel Now The former president’s 2015 backers, in their own words Now that Donald Trump’s presidency is over, how do the Americans who supported him at the beginning of his political run feel about his performance in the Oval Office? I put that question to 30 men and women who wrote to me in August 2015 to explain their reasons for backing his insurgent candidacy. Among the eight who replied, all in the second week of January, after the storming of the Capitol, some persist in supporting Trump; others have turned against him; still others have lost faith in the whole political system. They do not constitute a representative sample of Trump voters. But their views, rendered in their own words, offer more texture than polls that tell us an approval rating. The Atlantic 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 10 hours ago, bickster said: First of the ex-Trump staffers out of the blocks is this wretch. See here her opening shot in her campaign to be Governor of Arkansas As someone commented, Arkansas, if she's the answer, the question was f***ing stupid If you watch this, I reccommend having a bucket close at hand To be fair I think that is a very effective video, an example of how you can dress up right-wing Trumpian policies in a more political way that will convince any Republican voters that finally turned on the party to come back again. It's probably more dangerous than if Trump or one of his vermin family tried to run again either as a Republican or independent as they would surely lose heavily. I wonder what odds you can get for her running for President in 2024. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Zen Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, bickster said: I have and lets get something straight. FIrstly, Mussolini was a believer in Marxist Economic Theory and secondly that means the state taking over control of buisness and NOT business taking over the State That is, respectfully, crying out for qualification. Please explain how Mussolini’s fascist Italy was based on Marxist economic theory, and indeed how Marxist exonomic theory can possibly be detatched from Marxism in general and reemerge in fascist colours with any meaningful degree of similarity? If it’s too far off topic for the thread, I’ll accept that, but that’s a pretty big statement you just made without any real explanation. Edited January 26, 2021 by Michelsen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Zen Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 (edited) 16 hours ago, mjmooney said: You're wrong, @bickster's right. I have a degree in International History and Politics, btw. As pertains to saying corporate+state=communism, then I’m really not sure that he is. That is, as @villakram says, basically the very definition of fascist economic theory (typically called corporatism or corporative statism). Communism, or Marxism, very much goes in the opposite direction as its ultimate goal is the perenially misunderstood concept of the dictatorarship of the proletariate. Very little marrying going on there, in the violent overthrow of capitalism, whilst the goal of fascism is obviously to supress the proletariate with the systematic criminalization of and active opposition to class struggle through fascist anti-democracy practices and corporative economic structures. Edited January 27, 2021 by Michelsen 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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