Davkaus Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 Not the first time I've said this, but if you're going out, gathering in huge crowds, during the middle of a pandemic to protest domestic affairs in a different country, you're an absolute **** idiot. I can understand it in the US, this is an incredibly important matter. But people in Stockholm, London, anywhere else...Your protests about US affairs are not important. Stay safe, and get the **** home you morons. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 I'm going tomorrow. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post LondonLax Posted June 3, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 3, 2020 1 minute ago, Davkaus said: Not the first time I've said this, but if you're going out, gathering in huge crowds, during the middle of a pandemic to protest domestic affairs in a different country, you're an absolute **** idiot. I can understand it in the US, this is an incredibly important matter. But people in Stockholm, London, anywhere else...Your protests about US affairs are not important. Stay safe, and get the **** home you morons. People feel discrimination in the UK, Sweden, Australia and other countries. This event is a rallying moment. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 (edited) What does success look like though for the protesters? This is what confuses me, it’s not like a protest about pay, or terms, or jobs. How will it end in anything other than frustration? Nobody is going to say “ok, due to the strong public feeling we’ll stop the institutional racism in the police force” for example. Edited June 3, 2020 by Genie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 There is nothing in the UK even within an order of magnitude of the type of police violence and discrimination that goes on in the US. It's an absurd comparison. Tell me what relevance lying down and chanting "I can't breath" has in the UK. I suspect more people will die from the spread of the virus that could be directly traced back to these protests than have died over the last several decades at the hands of British police. It is incredibly reckless and irresponsible. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 2 minutes ago, Davkaus said: There is nothing in the UK even within an order of magnitude of the type of police violence and discrimination that goes on in the US. It's an absurd comparison. Tell me what relevance lying down and chanting "I can't breath" has in the UK. I suspect more people will die from the spread of the virus that could be directly traced back to these protests than have died over the last several decades at the hands of British police. It is incredibly reckless and irresponsible. I’m with you, it’s reckless and risks the lives of thousands of innocent people who come into contact with those at the protest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 Yep the uk has a profiling problem which results in some damning statistics for stop and search policy We also have fairly isolated incidents of being overly aggressive However in the states its seemingly a huge problem, it goes way beyond the police and in to the justice system too I still can't recommend watching 13th enough, it's madness what they're doing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted June 3, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted June 3, 2020 5 minutes ago, Genie said: What does success look like though for the protesters? This is what confuses me, it’s not like a protest about pay, or terms, or jobs. How will it end in anything other than frustration? Nobody is going to say “ok, due to the strong public feeling we’ll stop the institutional racism in the police force” for example. It takes a sea change to make a sea change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 9 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: I'm going tomorrow. Tyrone Mings is being on stage at one in brum tomorrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 15 minutes ago, Davkaus said: if you're going out, gathering in huge crowds, during the middle of a pandemic to protest domestic affairs in a different country, you're an absolute **** idiot. 13 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: I'm going tomorrow. It's not post on poster when it happens this way around is it? 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 7 minutes ago, villa4europe said: Tyrone Mings is being on stage at one in brum tomorrow Yes, that's the one I'll be at. 2 minutes ago, Davkaus said: It's not post on poster when it happens this way around is it? No worries, you can call me an asshole if you like. I have thought hard about it, and I don't do it lightly, but I think a] there's pretty strong evidence that very little transmission is happening outdoors, b] this issue is worth the risk, and c] my wife is going anyway no matter what I decide and I obviously would look pretty terrible if she got into bother and I wasn't there, so 16 minutes ago, Genie said: What does success look like though for the protesters? This is what confuses me, it’s not like a protest about pay, or terms, or jobs. How will it end in anything other than frustration? Nobody is going to say “ok, due to the strong public feeling we’ll stop the institutional racism in the police force” for example. The nature of 'institutional racism', by definition, means that nobody can simply *decide* not to do it any more. 'Success' for me is ultimately nothing more than demonstrating solidarity with BAME folks and other marginalised communities, here, in the US and elsewhere, and trying to make people feel that we're equal members of a just society. No, it's not going to lead to some visible change, like a switch flicking. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: The nature of 'institutional racism', by definition, means that nobody can simply *decide* not to do it any more. 'Success' for me is ultimately nothing more than demonstrating solidarity with BAME folks and other marginalised communities, here, in the US and elsewhere, and trying to make people feel that we're equal members of a just society. No, it's not going to lead to some visible change, like a switch flicking. I kind of framed my post badly. I was just wondering what will be the trigger for the protesting in the US to end? There won’t be a concession from the side of the authorities. I can only see the increased aggression from the US government making the protests increase and dig in more. Where is it heading? Edited June 3, 2020 by Genie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 Absolutely embarrassing that they got a permit to protest today in Stockholm (and other cities) yes you need a permit in Sweden and they got one. All the rules and regulation that they implement becomes a joke when they allow something like this in the midst of a raging pandemic. Thousands of people who meet up and then go home to their families via public transport. And then they go to work the nest day, also via public transport. I have all the sympathy for the people who suffer from racism in the US and everywhere else. But I have zero sympathy for these guys. It's like begging for a second wave. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 4 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Yes, that's the one I'll be at. No worries, you can call me an asshole if you like. I have thought hard about it, and I don't do it lightly, but I think a] there's pretty strong evidence that very little transmission is happening outdoors, b] this issue is worth the risk, and c] my wife is going anyway no matter what I decide and I obviously would look pretty terrible if she got into bother and I wasn't there, so The nature of 'institutional racism', by definition, means that nobody can simply *decide* not to do it any more. 'Success' for me is ultimately nothing more than demonstrating solidarity with BAME folks and other marginalised communities, here, in the US and elsewhere, and trying to make people feel that we're equal members of a just society. No, it's not going to lead to some visible change, like a switch flicking. Bloody annoying when I disagree with someone whose posts I almost always agree with For me, there are two scenarios I'd unquestionably join in, either if the spark was started in the UK by British police and they'd started attacking the public and media. I'd be there in a shot. I'd also probably be there for these ones if it wasn't for covid. I know there are always people banging on "this isn't the time" whenever a protest inconveniences them in some way, but for me, the risk right now isn't worth it for what started as an overseas event. But I don't get to decide where other people's line is. Seeing those pictures in Stockholm makes me incredibly uncomfortable though. We know outdoor transmission is far less common - but that is presumably because most of the time when we're outdoors we're not packed into a confined space. Being pressed up against that many people looks incredibly risky to me. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiOgiwara Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 33 minutes ago, Davkaus said: Not the first time I've said this, but if you're going out, gathering in huge crowds, during the middle of a pandemic to protest domestic affairs in a different country, you're an absolute **** idiot. I can understand it in the US, this is an incredibly important matter. But people in Stockholm, London, anywhere else...Your protests about US affairs are not important. Stay safe, and get the **** home you morons. Things are almost back to normal here. Within 2 weeks time everything will have opened it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 3 minutes ago, Genie said: I kind of framed my post badly. I was just wondering what will be the trigger for the protesting in the US to end? There won’t be a concession from the side of the authorities. I can only see the increased aggression from the US government making the protests increase and dig in more. Where is it heading? That's a good question. There's a strong chance that things will slowly peter out. There seems to have been *some* de facto de-escalation from the government from Monday night, in that the armed forces appear to have made quite explicit that they don't intend to replace the police and the national guard on the streets, whatever Trump wants. But of course that's nothing by itself. I don't really know, is the honest answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam-AVFC Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 27 minutes ago, Davkaus said: There is nothing in the UK even within an order of magnitude of the type of police violence and discrimination that goes on in the US. It's an absurd comparison. Tell me what relevance lying down and chanting "I can't breath" has in the UK. I suspect more people will die from the spread of the virus that could be directly traced back to these protests than have died over the last several decades at the hands of British police. It is incredibly reckless and irresponsible. It clearly doesn't happen anywhere near as frequently in the USA, but we do still have problems over here. George Floyd death: Olaseni Lewis's mother 'can't watch' US arrest video Quote A woman cannot watch footage of George Floyd's arrest in the US saying it is too similar to how her son died. Aji Lewis's son Olaseni, 23, died in 2010 soon after he was restrained by police officers at a London hospital. "I can't watch" what happened to Mr Floyd who died in Minneapolis "because the very thing Seni was saying was 'I can't breathe'," she said. An inquest concluded in 2017 that "excessive force" was used by 11 police officers on Mr Lewis. Six police officers have since however, been cleared of gross misconduct over his death. The fact 11 men can be deemed by an inquest to have used excessive force restraining someone and still get cleared of gross misconduct seems odd to me. These officers weren't cleared of a crime as they weren't charged, they were cleared of doing their job badly enough to face any recourse. This after restraining a man in a way that caused him to die of brain damage 6 days later. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 6 minutes ago, Davkaus said: Bloody annoying when I disagree with someone whose posts I almost always agree with For me, there are two scenarios I'd unquestionably join in, either if the spark was started in the UK by British police and they'd started attacking the public and media. I'd be there in a shot. I'd also probably be there for these ones if it wasn't for covid. I know there are always people banging on "this isn't the time" whenever a protest inconveniences them in some way, but for me, the risk right now isn't worth it for what started as an overseas event. But I don't get to decide where other people's line is. Seeing those pictures in Stockholm makes me incredibly uncomfortable though. We know outdoor transmission is far less common - but that is presumably because most of the time when we're outdoors we're not packed into a confined space. Being pressed up against that many people looks incredibly risky to me. All fair points. As you say, it's where you draw the line at the end of the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted June 3, 2020 Share Posted June 3, 2020 22 minutes ago, LondonLax said: That's basically giving the police a free pass to do whatever they want. Worrying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts