Ashley Westwood

[meregreen]

Stats, stats, stats. Where would Westwood be without stats? Nothing else to prove his worth. Ignore the stats, watch the game, he is totally ineffective.

I said last season Westwood, Delph and Cleverly were one of the worst midfields I could remember at our club. 4/5 decent games under a new manager bounce changes nothing, it was still a terrible midfield. 

I don't know what the stats say about his corners, but I can tell you they are bloody awful, and waste opportunities to score which we can ill afford. And the fact that other players put in shit corners is no excuse.

 

Where would any footballer be without stats?  Why would teams bother hiring specialists to analyse stats if they were so irrelevant?

Westwood isn't a world beater, but he's good enough to be a Premier League footballer and plays an important role in our midfield if we're to play a central trio.  Every other midfielder we've had recently has had nowhere near the stick Westwood gets despite all of them failing to be anything other than alright.  It's incredible.

Westwood can clearly cross a ball - just look at the one he presented for Micah Richards to miss against Stoke.  Non-whipped corners can be exactly the right type for teams with an aerial threat that love to attack the ball, rather than having a delivery with all the pace on it in the world.  Benteke and Gestede absolutely fit that bill.

You rate him. I don't. High floaty corners favour defenders. Gestede scored a beauty from a whipped in cross against the noses. It's not "incredible" it's just people having a different view than you of a very average footballer.

[bobzy]

Stats, stats, stats. Where would Westwood be without stats? Nothing else to prove his worth. Ignore the stats, watch the game, he is totally ineffective.

I said last season Westwood, Delph and Cleverly were one of the worst midfields I could remember at our club. 4/5 decent games under a new manager bounce changes nothing, it was still a terrible midfield. 

I don't know what the stats say about his corners, but I can tell you they are bloody awful, and waste opportunities to score which we can ill afford. And the fact that other players put in shit corners is no excuse.

 

Where would any footballer be without stats?  Why would teams bother hiring specialists to analyse stats if they were so irrelevant?

Westwood isn't a world beater, but he's good enough to be a Premier League footballer and plays an important role in our midfield if we're to play a central trio.  Every other midfielder we've had recently has had nowhere near the stick Westwood gets despite all of them failing to be anything other than alright.  It's incredible.

Westwood can clearly cross a ball - just look at the one he presented for Micah Richards to miss against Stoke.  Non-whipped corners can be exactly the right type for teams with an aerial threat that love to attack the ball, rather than having a delivery with all the pace on it in the world.  Benteke and Gestede absolutely fit that bill.

You rate him. I don't. High floaty corners favour defenders. Gestede scored a beauty from a whipped in cross against the noses. It's not "incredible" it's just people having a different view than you of a very average footballer.

They don't favour defenders any more than any other corner.  If you have a beast in the air who can attack the ball well (again, Benteke/Gestede), the less pace on the ball means they can adjust to the flight and attack it.  Of course, the ball has to be in the right area and, quite obviously, this often isn't the case.  They still work.  It's just more hating.

 

(That goal against Blues, and also the goal against Liverpool, weren't from whipped crosses.  The ball on both occasions was placed into an area to attack, as per the above.)

[a m ole]

not sure about anyone else, but I watch the game with my eyes, form an opinion and then use the statistics to support or question my opinion. What I don't do is form and opinion and then ignore statistics because they don't suit what I decided earlier. If I watched a game with Westwood and I thought his passing was great, but then someone said "actually his passing was pretty poor for me, 85% of them were backwards or sideways and he didn't create any chances, also 29% of them were misplaced" I would say - fair enough, I didn't realise he misplaced so many passes, and I thought he was more incisive than that but it looks like he didn't pass the ball forward at all.

 

But that never happens, does it.

Edited October 7, 2015 by a m ole

[meregreen]

Stats, stats, stats. Where would Westwood be without stats? Nothing else to prove his worth. Ignore the stats, watch the game, he is totally ineffective.

I said last season Westwood, Delph and Cleverly were one of the worst midfields I could remember at our club. 4/5 decent games under a new manager bounce changes nothing, it was still a terrible midfield. 

I don't know what the stats say about his corners, but I can tell you they are bloody awful, and waste opportunities to score which we can ill afford. And the fact that other players put in shit corners is no excuse.

 

Where would any footballer be without stats?  Why would teams bother hiring specialists to analyse stats if they were so irrelevant?

Westwood isn't a world beater, but he's good enough to be a Premier League footballer and plays an important role in our midfield if we're to play a central trio.  Every other midfielder we've had recently has had nowhere near the stick Westwood gets despite all of them failing to be anything other than alright.  It's incredible.

Westwood can clearly cross a ball - just look at the one he presented for Micah Richards to miss against Stoke.  Non-whipped corners can be exactly the right type for teams with an aerial threat that love to attack the ball, rather than having a delivery with all the pace on it in the world.  Benteke and Gestede absolutely fit that bill.

You rate him. I don't. High floaty corners favour defenders. Gestede scored a beauty from a whipped in cross against the noses. It's not "incredible" it's just people having a different view than you of a very average footballer.

They don't favour defenders any more than any other corner.  If you have a beast in the air who can attack the ball well (again, Benteke/Gestede), the less pace on the ball means they can adjust to the flight and attack it.  Of course, the ball has to be in the right area and, quite obviously, this often isn't the case.  They still work.  It's just more hating.

 

(That goal against Blues, and also the goal against Liverpool, weren't from whipped crosses.  The ball on both occasions was placed into an area to attack, as per the above.)

It most certainly was a whipped in cross.High floaty corners give defenders and goalkeepers time to set themselves, it is more difficult to put power into a header when a ball is dropping from high up. What's with the use of the word "hating " again? I don't hate anybody,I simply disagree with you about the merits of a certain players style of play 

[AntrimBlack]

not sure about anyone else, but I watch the game with my eyes, form an opinion and then use the statistics to support or question my opinion. What I don't do is form and opinion and then ignore statistics because they don't suit what I decided earlier. If I watched a game with Westwood and I thought his passing was great, but then someone said "actually his passing was pretty poor for me, 85% of them were backwards or sideways and he didn't create any chances, also 29% of them were misplaced" I would say - fair enough, I didn't realise he misplaced so many passes, and I thought he was more incisive than that but it looks like he didn't pass the ball forward at all.

 

But that never happens, does it.

I watch the game with my eyes, form an opinion. That is all I need to do.

[a m ole]

so it's your opinion with no evidence versus my opinion with evidence.

I have a theory, you simply have a hypothesis.

 

[AntrimBlack]

so it's your opinion with no evidence versus my opinion with evidence.

I have a theory, you simply have a hypothesis.

 

Doesn't using my eyes count for anything?

[Keyblade]

Stats, stats, stats. Where would Westwood be without stats? Nothing else to prove his worth. Ignore the stats, watch the game, he is totally ineffective.

I said last season Westwood, Delph and Cleverly were one of the worst midfields I could remember at our club. 4/5 decent games under a new manager bounce changes nothing, it was still a terrible midfield. 

I don't know what the stats say about his corners, but I can tell you they are bloody awful, and waste opportunities to score which we can ill afford. And the fact that other players put in shit corners is no excuse.

tl;dr stats are only useles when they don't support my point of view

[TRO]

Stats, stats, stats. Where would Westwood be without stats? Nothing else to prove his worth. Ignore the stats, watch the game, he is totally ineffective.

I said last season Westwood, Delph and Cleverly were one of the worst midfields I could remember at our club. 4/5 decent games under a new manager bounce changes nothing, it was still a terrible midfield. 

I don't know what the stats say about his corners, but I can tell you they are bloody awful, and waste opportunities to score which we can ill afford. And the fact that other players put in shit corners is no excuse.

 

Nothing else to prove his worth? So stats count for nothing in this case? Truth is the stats back up what a lot of us see and others don't so that's why stats get brought into it as they can't really be argued against and prove a point especially when someone says he just plays it safe all the time and plays the easy pass, yes he does that plenty of times as he is hardly going to try the killer ball everytime but he takes plenty of risks and creates plenty of opportunities for us by being quick with his control and passing and looking for the openings when they are on.

                   For me, its the ease that he allows players to run past him or turn him, thats my issue with him.

[TRO]

not sure about anyone else, but I watch the game with my eyes, form an opinion and then use the statistics to support or question my opinion. What I don't do is form and opinion and then ignore statistics because they don't suit what I decided earlier. If I watched a game with Westwood and I thought his passing was great, but then someone said "actually his passing was pretty poor for me, 85% of them were backwards or sideways and he didn't create any chances, also 29% of them were misplaced" I would say - fair enough, I didn't realise he misplaced so many passes, and I thought he was more incisive than that but it looks like he didn't pass the ball forward at all.

 

But that never happens, does it.

I watch the game with my eyes, form an opinion. That is all I need to do.

                   I understand your point, but dare i say this, some fans have a greater grip on the finer arts of the game than others, some are just "Net Bulgers" and Burger and chips experts.....as long as we have won, we have played well in their eyes( however, right now I might take that view) Football is and always has been a view, even managers don't agree with each others view.

                   I remember, making an idiot of myself by not appreciating the work Of Des Bremner during his time with us mainly because he did not catch the eye like the more stylish, Cowans & Mortimer did.....Only now with years under my belt as a spectator, have I learnt the line "its not all GOLD that glitters"..... some of these guys that do the GRAFT are priceless.

                  Stats in football for me, is like colour by numbers, I'm sure some of them would go down well in the Tate Gallery.............. despite to the untrained eye, a  decent painting.

                  You can't argue with stats, but I'm not sure where they ulimately take us or the argument.....So I share your view on this.

Ps However, I concur with most of your opinions.

Edited October 8, 2015 by TRO

[a m ole]

In your analogy, for me, the statistics are simply the nail and hook that the painting is on. When someone paints the picture that Westwood only passes sideways or backwards but the only hook we have says '70% of Westwood passes are forwards', then get that picture out of my gallery.

Edited October 8, 2015 by a m ole

[sexbelowsound]

Poor Westwood, Still getting abuse even though he hasn't played for nearly a week.

He really is the most inoffensive player in the squad. I find it truly baffling.

[Eames]

The only complaint I have about Westwood are those ridiculous floaty corners he insists on sending in. Everything else about him and his game is absolutely fine. 

[Mister_a]

Never in the field of ball shaped conflict, has so much been written by so many for someone so average.....

This discussion is fascinating though

 

Edit: his corners make be want to strangle kittens, mind.

Edited October 8, 2015 by Mister_a

[osmark86]

not sure about anyone else, but I watch the game with my eyes, form an opinion and then use the statistics to support or question my opinion. What I don't do is form and opinion and then ignore statistics because they don't suit what I decided earlier. If I watched a game with Westwood and I thought his passing was great, but then someone said "actually his passing was pretty poor for me, 85% of them were backwards or sideways and he didn't create any chances, also 29% of them were misplaced" I would say - fair enough, I didn't realise he misplaced so many passes, and I thought he was more incisive than that but it looks like he didn't pass the ball forward at all.

 

But that never happens, does it.

Couldn't agree more.

[TRO]

 

He really is the most inoffensive player in the squad. I find it truly baffling.

                      you have answered yourself......Inoffensive to the opposition too, more importantly.

Edited October 8, 2015 by TRO

[sexbelowsound]

 

He really is the most inoffensive player in the squad. I find it truly baffling.

                      you have answered yourself......Inoffensive to the opposition too, more importantly.

And that justifies the level of criticism he receives? 

[bobzy]

 

He really is the most inoffensive player in the squad. I find it truly baffling.

                      you have answered yourself......Inoffensive to the opposition too, more importantly.

We have players who constantly gift the opposition the ball with mistakes who get far less criticism than Westwood.  FAR less.

Hell, our actual defensive midfielder (Sanchez) put in one of the worst challenges I've seen against Sturridge when he scored that cracking volley against us - not even mentioned in his thread.  If that was Westwood, we'd have meltdown...

[Zatman]

Poor Westwood, Still getting abuse even though he hasn't played for nearly a week.

could say the same about the Sherwood thread

[sexbelowsound]

Poor Westwood, Still getting abuse even though he hasn't played for nearly a week.

could say the same about the Sherwood thread

That would be because over the course of the week Westwood hasn't been in the media talking utter drivel. If he was then i'd expect the same level of discussion,