lexicon Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 One example is not really evidence of 'telling defensive contribution'. It's been agreed that his passing is good but it still doesn't impact the game much and he is a long, long way from ever being able to influence a game enough to change it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Your statement was: He's also never really made a 'telling defensive contribution'. See the word 'never'. it means he hasn't ever made a telling defensive contribution'. I gave you an example from 2 games ago when he did. Is this another 'capable' moment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaglint Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 In pre season and the opening few games of the season I have been greatly impressed with our Ashley. He looks very confident and like he now believes he is a serious premiership player. I think a lot of that comes from the backing he is getting from the manager. The key difference I am seeing is in the tempo of his play. One mini frustration I had with him in the last few players was he always needed to control the ball when receiving it no matter how much space he was in and where on the pitch he was. He meant although he was always "tidy" it was a little bit slow and laboured at times. In the last 6 games he's played I've noticed a lot of first time passes and a lot of passes where he knows where its going before he's received it. Added competition leads to a player with a strong motivation to improve themselves. Who would have thought it! See Sanchez also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 One example is not really evidence of 'telling defensive contribution'. It is when you say he's never made one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 (edited) In terms of semantics, yes. I'll try and keep it simpler for you this time. 'A telling defensive contribution' - to me, this means a good, noticeable defensive performance throughout the course of at least one match. One instance of him stopping a team from scoring is an isolated example and not enough. Edited September 1, 2015 by lexicon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 It isn't enough now because it doesn't suit your argument anymore after moving the goalposts again 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 It isn't enough now because it doesn't suit your argument anymore after moving the goalposts again I didn't move the goalposts, I just elaborated on what I meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 It isn't enough now because it doesn't suit your argument anymore after moving the goalposts again This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PompeyVillan Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 You see for me, this is still polarising just in a less aggressive way. I'm definitely not sold on Westwood but I don't think he's a bad player either. However, I think he's about coming to the end of his usefulness and I certainly don't think he's even 'aspiring top 10'. He's also never really made a 'telling defensive contribution'. If we take the most recent game as an example, where he had a freer attacking role - he struggled to make any sort of impact or impression on the game. His former role of sitting a little deeper is now redundant as we've split that role between Sanchez and Gueye (who are both far better defensively than him) so the onus was on him to influence the game in an attacking sense. He was largely anonymous throughout the game and when Gil came on, he may as well not have existed as he was basically a spectator. Gil can pass just as well as he can, he's more athletic, he is much more technically proficient and thus offered us a real attacking threat. In the formation and style we're looking to play, he's just not necessary at the moment. Gil isn't a central midfielder. So the comparison in that sense is flawed, although I see what you are getting at. Westwood was playing as a central midfielder, I thought, but in the role undertaken by Delph and Cleverley last season. Still plenty of defensive onus and responsibility for build up but with a license to make forward runs. Gil was taking up no 10 positions. But I did notice he likes to drop deep. He's a good player who I like, but I think he's different to Westwood in terms of position. Together they could be a great combination. I also think that Westwood is highly superior footballer to Sanchez in most areas, apart from height, strength and aerial ability. It's not a given that Sanchez will squeeze Westwood out of the team. I think it's unlikely actually. But both have their merits in that position and give us options depending on who we are playing. I think Westwood would be Sherwood's no1 midfielder as the moment. As much as Gana has been good, he's not as dependable on the ball. He's still settling. Veretout has shown he's off the pace at the moment, but I won't hold that against him. I hope he develops and shows what he can do. All in all, we have decent options in central midfield. Although perhaps not the highest quality there is enough competition there that nobody is a shoe in. That's good news for the club and the competition for places can only help us. For me Westwood is currently our best central midfielder. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troon_villan Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Worked hard. Right, him him a new contract. He He. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 You see for me, this is still polarising just in a less aggressive way. I'm definitely not sold on Westwood but I don't think he's a bad player either. However, I think he's about coming to the end of his usefulness and I certainly don't think he's even 'aspiring top 10'. He's also never really made a 'telling defensive contribution'. If we take the most recent game as an example, where he had a freer attacking role - he struggled to make any sort of impact or impression on the game. His former role of sitting a little deeper is now redundant as we've split that role between Sanchez and Gueye (who are both far better defensively than him) so the onus was on him to influence the game in an attacking sense. He was largely anonymous throughout the game and when Gil came on, he may as well not have existed as he was basically a spectator. Gil can pass just as well as he can, he's more athletic, he is much more technically proficient and thus offered us a real attacking threat. In the formation and style we're looking to play, he's just not necessary at the moment. Gil isn't a central midfielder. So the comparison in that sense is flawed, although I see what you are getting at. Westwood was playing as a central midfielder, I thought, but in the role undertaken by Delph and Cleverley last season. Still plenty of defensive onus and responsibility for build up but with a license to make forward runs. Gil was taking up no 10 positions. But I did notice he likes to drop deep. He's a good player who I like, but I think he's different to Westwood in terms of position. Together they could be a great combination. I also think that Westwood is highly superior footballer to Sanchez in most areas, apart from height, strength and aerial ability. It's not a given that Sanchez will squeeze Westwood out of the team. I think it's unlikely actually. But both have their merits in that position and give us options depending on who we are playing. I think Westwood would be Sherwood's no1 midfielder as the moment. As much as Gana has been good, he's not as dependable on the ball. He's still settling. Veretout has shown he's off the pace at the moment, but I won't hold that against him. I hope he develops and shows what he can do. All in all, we have decent options in central midfield. Although perhaps not the highest quality there is enough competition there that nobody is a shoe in. That's good news for the club and the competition for places can only help us. For me Westwood is currently our best central midfielder. Hooray - a sensible post/answer! What I was getting at with Gil is that I think we'd be able to play him in front of Gana/Sanchez and we'd be fine. Those two lock down the defensive duties very well and certainly against weaker teams, I don't think we'd need a third CM to press/tackle so much. So not really playing Gil as CM, as I agree that he clearly isn't one, but more like a CAM who drops deep to help build attacks. I think he's a lot more proficient in that respect. As for number one CM, for me it has to be Gana. He'd be great to play next to - he does so much work and is comfortable enough on the ball too, he's sort of the reason I think Westwood might struggle though because it puts more onus on him to be attacking. I hope he does develop, of course, but I have doubts that he will be good enough going forward. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Anytime he looks like improving he throws in a performance like that. 4/5 times in the first half he got caught on the ball or gave it away. And the 2nd half, him and Sanchez were awful and just not up to the fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Why is he still taking bloody corners? FFS. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swerbs Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Quiet today, no wrong, no good either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 the corners are a disgrace at this stage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czechlad Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Anytime he looks like improving he throws in a performance like that. 4/5 times in the first half he got caught on the ball or gave it away. And the 2nd half, him and Sanchez were awful and just not up to the fight. They were fine even in the 2nd half. Westwood's passing was put to a waste when Ayew didn't move and immediately gave the ball away each time. Same went for Gestede who just stood there expecting the ball to come to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 This is the part where someone tells us he had a 90% + passing accuracy. The reason we are not moving forward is because we still have plodders like Westwood in the team. Rank average at everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 far too weak, and his passing was not upto his usually good standard. Was easily brushed aside with regularity by drinkwater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Awful today, while he's played well so far we're going nowhere with him as a regular midfield player. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Average today. Certainly not the worst in our team.The corners thing, clearly he's told to float them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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