General Conspiracy Theory Dump Store

[Chindie]

9/11 conspiracies are the domain of the word removed.

[villa4europe]

agree with Mooney, overly complicated and risky, the wasn't really a prelude to the attack, no real build up or campaign of threat, they could have instigated several smaller attacks, used fear in the same way they do now and then carried out a small scale bombing, a mass shooting or a high level assassination with the same result, the northwood documents and the cuba stuff from the cold war allude to the same, just an attack on the US military under the guise of something else spun how they wanted it

instead they decided to fly 2 planes in the world trade centre and collapse 1m tonne of building in the middle of the city? that would be bat shit crazy, they would have very little control 

Edited July 19, 2018 by villa4europe

[Stevo985]

56 minutes ago, A'Villan said:

Read the Northwood Documents, COINTELPRO and MK-ULTRA and ask yourself would it really be beyond the U.S.A?

Yes.

[A'Villan]

3 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Yes.

Fair enough.

[A'Villan]

13 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

agree with Mooney, overly complicated and risky, the wasn't really a prelude to the attack, no real build up or campaign of threat, they could have instigated several smaller attacks, used fear in the same way they do now and then carried out a small scale bombing, a mass shooting or a high level assassination with the same result, the northwood documents and the cuba stuff from the cold war allude to the same, just an attack on the US military under the guise of something else spun how they wanted it

instead they decided to fly 2 planes in the world trade centre and collapse 1m tonne of building in the middle of the city? that would be bat shit crazy, they would have very little control 

I have to agree with the overly complicated reasoning, then on the other hand if done successfully you'd have confusion and hysteria,  and the perfect platform to wage a war on terror.

No, the Northwood documents suggested the hijacking of planes and violent attacks of terrorism on U.S civilians among other suggestions.

"The operation proposed creating public support for a war against Cuba by blaming it for terrorist acts that would actually be perpetrated by the U.S. Government"

It took 30 years for that information to be released, and they were just proposals. You'd never find out if a government actually went through with something like that.

As for the being no prelude, what ensued? One great big colonial adventure. A multi billion dollar war on terror, with contracts like the 7 billion dollar one that went exclusively to Halliburton, the former company of VPOTUS at the time, Cheney.

The same Cheney who was responsible for funding Al-Qaeda with 6 billion from 1989-1992.

[Xela]

9/11 is just too complex IMO to have been an 'inside job'. You would have needed thousands/tens of thousands of people involved including 2x national airlines (if you go with the theory that the planes that struck were not passenger jets but cargo jets armed with missiles)

It would have been far easy to to a truck bomb in Times Square

[mjmooney]

I'm not saying that the U.S. bad guys were not indirectly responsible, given their earlier arming and supporting Islamic forces when it suited them. Nor that they didn't smile, Bond villain-like, when it happened, for the leeway it would give them. But actually plan and execute it, no. 

Edited July 19, 2018 by mjmooney

[chrisp65]

If it had been an inside job the two planes would have landed on each other somewhere out in the desert.

 

[Chindie]

There's no conspiracy to 9/11.

What there is, is hubris, **** ups, and evil cynicism to not waste a crisis.

All of the nonsense about it that some words removed believe has been tackled, to the nth degree. That it continues to be peddled is just another damning indictment of how **** dumb some of humanity is. It

[Mark Albrighton]

 

[A'Villan]

On 20/07/2018 at 04:30, Chindie said:

There's no conspiracy to 9/11.

What there is, is hubris, **** ups, and evil cynicism to not waste a crisis.

All of the nonsense about it that some words removed believe has been tackled, to the nth degree. That it continues to be peddled is just another damning indictment of how **** dumb some of humanity is. It

Who does the hubris, f ups and evil cynicism that you mention belong to?

I think it's a damning indictment on humanity that others are perceived as inferior over their questioning the events that have taken place, whether they are thorough in their research or mislead and uninformed is not of importance, I think the uncertainty over such events is understandable, what's damning is the history and relationships of the people involved. We are dealing with a very complicated issue and the recognition of conspiracy is a sign of intelligence in my mind because even in the event it is unfounded or inaccurate, it remains open to the possibility that not all evidence that will be presented is complete or even free from bias or agenda.

[Seat68]

12 minutes ago, A'Villan said:

Who does the hubris, f ups and evil cynicism that you mention belong to?

I think it's a damning indictment on humanity that others are perceived as inferior over their questioning the events that have taken place, whether they are thorough in their research or mislead and uninformed is not of importance, I think the uncertainty over such events is understandable, what's damning is the history and relationships of the people involved. We are dealing with a very complicated issue and the recognition of conspiracy is a sign of intelligence in my mind because even in the event it is unfounded or inaccurate, it remains open to the possibility that not all evidence that will be presented is complete or even free from bias or agenda.

Is Alex Jones right then to accuse parents of dead children being crisis actors? Its really disrespectful right? So really looking at extremely tenuous elements of the whole 9/11 attack and because a single thing does not fit the narrative, then surely the most logical leap would be it's a government cover up? Right? Where as the most logical, the most investigated is what the majority of right thinking people agree to, that some terrorists co-ordinated an attack. 

Personally I think its offensive to families of all that died in September 2001 to repeat these lies. But thats me.

Edited August 1, 2018 by Seat68

[Chindie]

29 minutes ago, A'Villan said:

Who does the hubris, f ups and evil cynicism that you mention belong to?

I think it's a damning indictment on humanity that others are perceived as inferior over their questioning the events that have taken place, whether they are thorough in their research or mislead and uninformed is not of importance, I think the uncertainty over such events is understandable, what's damning is the history and relationships of the people involved. We are dealing with a very complicated issue and the recognition of conspiracy is a sign of intelligence in my mind because even in the event it is unfounded or inaccurate, it remains open to the possibility that not all evidence that will be presented is complete or even free from bias or agenda.

Various elements of the US. Hubris in believing they were above any risk, **** ups in areas like intelligence agencies not talking to each other, and cynicism in elements of the US government to use the crisis to their own ends, as unfortunately is common political manoeuvring worldwide since the year dot.

There is no 9/11 conspiracy.

It remains the domain of the word removed.

 

[A'Villan]

10 minutes ago, Seat68 said:

Is Alex Jones right then to accuse parents of dead children being crisis actors? Its really disrespectful right? So really looking at extremely tenuous elements of the whole 9/11 attack and because a single thing does not fit the narrative, then surely the most logical leap would be it's a government cover up? Right? Where as the most logical, the most investigated is what the majority of right thinking people agree to, that some terrorists co-ordinated an attack. 

I don't pay much attention to Alex Jones, never have, I don't know how credible he is but from the little I've seen of him I have no reason to pursue his input any further. For what it's worth I think there's a lot of hysteria out there and inevitably that will lead to overreactions and misunderstanding.  You will have to elaborate on the parents of dead children being crisis actors comments, as I don't understand, apologies.

I'm not sure that tenuous is a word I can relate to on the subject of responsibility for the world events that preceded and ensued after 9/11.

I don't want to assume what information you have been exposed to, as it could be that you have come across that which I've based my thoughts on, and have simply come to a different conclusion.

A terrorist absolutely co-ordinated the attack. You are mistaken if you think the U.S.A has not used terrorist attacks as part of protocol. They don't advertise it for what I consider to be fairly obvious reasons.

[VILLAMARV]

I've tended to ignore this thread during my time here, but what the hell.

@A'Villan - You do know Alex Jones is an absolute lunatic don't you? And not that lunatics can't ever be right about stuff but need to be recognised as such. He also likes making money. I always laugh at the Alex Jones is Bill Hicks stuff as he is the embodiment of "lot of money in that anti-establishment dollar" bit Hicks used to do.

The minute anyone mentions him then any actual topic generally gets lost because he's a loon.

[A'Villan]

20 minutes ago, VILLAMARV said:

I've tended to ignore this thread during my time here, but what the hell.

@A'Villan - You do know Alex Jones is an absolute lunatic don't you? And not that lunatics can't ever be right about stuff but need to be recognised as such. He also likes making money. I always laugh at the Alex Jones is Bill Hicks stuff as he is the embodiment of "lot of money in that anti-establishment dollar" bit Hicks used to do.

The minute anyone mentions him then any actual topic generally gets lost because he's a loon.

If I wasn't clear Alex Jones is not someone who I go to as a source for information or to develop ideas and concepts.

I don't feel like he represents anything more benevolent or truthful than the very people he is trying to expose as fraudulent, perhaps that's my prejudice more than truth, as I said I don't watch or read his content, so I can't really comment on him.

Same as David Icke, seen very little of his stuff but from what I have I'm not a fan.

I'm actually frustrated that these people are renowned and representatives of conversation I enjoy and which I think society would benefit from addressing.

If anything, they just make the conversation more taboo and unappealing to the more discerning types.

[VILLAMARV]

Anyone you can find clips of crying on you tube because the President didn't be a patriot - oh and buy these supplements btw! - Boo hoo etc has just told you all you need to know about them imo.

Like I say that doesn't make him wrong neccesarily, but in the case of the Russo video you posted I believe that was done with the right intentions from both of them. I think the money he made off that video showed him a path to a fortune. Which again doesn't make him evil or wrong for following it. Just not the truth seeker he claims to be 50 times every minute.

The problem for me is when you stop doing the research and the journalism and start talking to people about things 24hours a day a la info wars there's literally no integrity to it and it dilutes the message. Throw in a load of incendiary stuff about peoples dead kids not being real and you've managed to actually turn people away from the interesting things like declassified govt documents on testing programmes in the military and so on. Throw in the buddy-buddy routine with Trump and it starts to look like a controlled disinformation channel straight out of Russia's playbook. Hide the real stuff with the nonsense and point at it and laugh.

[limpid]

5 hours ago, A'Villan said:

I think it's a damning indictment on humanity that others are perceived as inferior over their questioning the events that have taken place, whether they are thorough in their research or mislead and uninformed is not of importance, I think the uncertainty over such events is understandable, what's damning is the history and relationships of the people involved. We are dealing with a very complicated issue and the recognition of conspiracy is a sign of intelligence in my mind because even in the event it is unfounded or inaccurate, it remains open to the possibility that not all evidence that will be presented is complete or even free from bias or agenda.

I think it's a damning indictment on society that our education systems produces people that think it's acceptable to believe something without sufficient evidence. An "open mind" is not one that beleives things until they can be proven false. It is one which says "I don't know" until there is sufficient evidence and is then prepared to change its mind when new evidence is available.

[A'Villan]

1 hour ago, VILLAMARV said:

Anyone you can find clips of crying on you tube because the President didn't be a patriot - oh and buy these supplements btw! - Boo hoo etc has just told you all you need to know about them imo.

Like I say that doesn't make him wrong neccesarily, but in the case of the Russo video you posted I believe that was done with the right intentions from both of them. I think the money he made off that video showed him a path to a fortune. Which again doesn't make him evil or wrong for following it. Just not the truth seeker he claims to be 50 times every minute.

The problem for me is when you stop doing the research and the journalism and start talking to people about things 24hours a day a la info wars there's literally no integrity to it and it dilutes the message. Throw in a load of incendiary stuff about peoples dead kids not being real and you've managed to actually turn people away from the interesting things like declassified govt documents on testing programmes in the military and so on. Throw in the buddy-buddy routine with Trump and it starts to look like a controlled disinformation channel straight out of Russia's playbook. Hide the real stuff with the nonsense and point at it and laugh.

This is well said and resonates with me.

What interested me in the Russo video was purely Russo. Here's a guy with a career in more than one field where by he is recognised on a world stage, and he's going to jeopardise that to head a false conspiracy movement?

"Some even believe we a part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterising me and my family as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure - one world if you will. If that's the charge, I am guilty, and I am proud of it." - David Rockefeller (Memoirs).

So in his own words a Rockefeller admits to having an agenda and interest in global affairs, as you inevitably would with such power and money, how sinister and far fetched some theories would suggest it gets goes beyond my understanding.

[A'Villan]

8 minutes ago, limpid said:

I think it's a damning indictment on society that our education systems produces people that think it's acceptable to believe something without sufficient evidence. An "open mind" is not one that beleives things until they can be proven false. It is one which says "I don't know" until there is sufficient evidence and is then prepared to change its mind when new evidence is available.

I agree, though I don't think it's purely the education department, it's the whole system. It lacks transparency and integrity which breeds ignorance and distrust.

Edit: On reflection I'm going to say that I think part of learning is by making mistakes which will involve getting things wrong some of the time, something I'm sure goes without saying in your view too.

In response to your 'open mind' comment, I can only assume whether or not it's directed at me and the way I've displayed my beliefs on the forum, but I suppose that's irrelevant anyway, I think an open mind is being open to the unknown, the various possibilities, thinking independently and being aware of your bias.

 

Edited August 1, 2018 by A'Villan