Relegation

[sne]

I have no fears of relegation this season.

Because?

[SikhInTrinity]

There are 3 worse teams than us! I honestly think Swansea will struggle, Norwich and Reading are worse than us. QPR have bought everybody apart from decent defenders.

[bickster]

Swansea when fully fit (they currently have a bit of a defensive crisis) will be mid table I reckon

[Mantis]

I see no differences in performance levels compared to last season. We are still as inept in front of goal as last season 'smetrov' and because of that i cannot see us giving any Premiership team 'a right hammering.'

You also have to remember we have had an easy start concerning fixtures and have picked up too few points against those teams. What makes you think we're going to score more goals against the better teams in the Premiership? Please don't quote the City game to me as that wasn't in the Premiership.

Perhaps you need to watch us more then. Performances have been much better and I honestly don't know how anybody can deny that.

City counts. That team they put out was easily far better than ours and full of quality players. You're only dismissing that because it wouldn't fit your argument to include it. Games against the big teams are not automatic write-offs like last season and we've proven that already.

You'd think after watching football for so many years people would be able to get their head round the idea that football isn't played on paper. Just because we got hammered by Southampton doesn't mean we can't go on to beat one of the best teams in the league. In fact that's exactly what happened.

I'd refer you to the strict PM sent by the Mods to both of us Mantis. I have noted you interfering in debates i've been having with other VT posters and would ask you to stop that as per under Mod instruction. You will note i was replying to 'smetrov's' post and i actually named who i was replying to. Any further interference in my debates with other posters and i will have no alternative but to report you to the Mods.

This is a forum. People are allowed to discuss things and challenge other members on their points of view. It's not "interference", I'm just merely putting my point of view across as everybody else on here does. Nobody else seems to have a problem with members other than the ones they were addressing responding to their points.

If you don't like people responding to your points then just ignore them.

I watched your game against WBA, and I'm sorry, but you look certain relegation candidates to me.

At least be more subtle.

We see what we wan't to see. We wan't Lambert to succed so we see good in everything.

Just imagine what the mood had been on here with these signings and results if McLeish had still been here?

Playing more attractive football would not have helped...

We wanted McLeish to succeed too. Don't remember anyone saying otherwise. It's not about people seeing what they want to see, people are just recognising that there have been marked improvements on last season.

If McLeish had come in, made shrewd signings, dropped players that needed to be dropped, had us playing with spirit and tried to get us passing the ball more I think he would have got a lot more time. The reason he didn't get a great deal of time is because none of those things were evident and he proved himself to be just as bad as we feared when he was first hired. This "the Villa fans didn't want McLeish to succeed" thing is just a lie perpetuated by the media.

[Stevo985]

I have no fears of relegation this season.

Because?

Because I think we'll comfortably avoid it.

Don't get me wrong, I think we'll be bottom 10.

But I think we're more likely to be 11th or 12th than 16th or 17th.

[BOF]

We wanted McLeish to succeed too.

It's a slightly more nuanced point than that though. Of course people wanted McLeish to succeed because they wanted Villa to succeed. But those who were convinced that he wouldn't, would never see the good (not that there was much if any). I suppose with him it's a rather extreme example given that he was so poor, but, similarly I'm seeing it right now with a Spurs mate of mine who was convinced after 2 games that he wanted AVB fired. Even now after a run of WDWWW including a win against Man Utd for the first time in 23 years using a not-very-AVB-system that quite clearly catered for the opposition (demonstrating tactical nous), every positive thing AVB does is qualified by a negative by my mate. "Well anyone decent could've won that", "Worst United since '95", "The other wins weren't against good opponents", "His substitutions still don't make sense". He'll tell you he wants AVB to succeed but all the while he will concentrate on not giving the credit deserved. All because of a pre-disposition towards the negative; towards not wanting AVB in the first place.

That's where McLeish and Lambert differ and it's why PL will be given a hell of a lot more time to get it right. And with good cause IMO. It's just that saying you want someone to succeed can and does manifest in different ways on the terraces. And it's why having the fans on side is crucial.

[Mantis]

We wanted McLeish to succeed too.

It's a slightly more nuanced point than that though. Of course people wanted McLeish to succeed because they wanted Villa to succeed. But those who were convinced that he wouldn't, would never see the good (not that there was much if any). I suppose with him it's a rather extreme example given that he was so poor, but, similarly I'm seeing it right now with a Spurs mate of mine who was convinced after 2 games that he wanted AVB fired. Even now after a run of WDWWW including a win against Man Utd for the first time in 23 years using a not-very-AVB-system that quite clearly catered for the opposition (demonstrating tactical nous), every positive thing AVB does is qualified by a negative by my mate. "Well anyone decent could've won that", "Worst United since '95", "The other wins weren't against good opponents", "His substitutions still don't make sense". He'll tell you he wants AVB to succeed but all the while he will concentrate on not giving the credit deserved. All because of a pre-disposition towards the negative; towards not wanting AVB in the first place.

That's where McLeish and Lambert differ and it's why PL will be given a hell of a lot more time to get it right. And with good cause IMO. It's just that saying you want someone to succeed can and does manifest in different ways on the terraces. And it's why having the fans on side is crucial.

Fair points, but I think people who only focus on negatives do so with all our managers. The reason why it's happening less with Lambert is because he's a far better manager with less negatives than McLeish.

If McLeish had come in and did the things Lambert did he would've got a lot more time from the fans. As it happens though I think McLeish got ample time from the fans anyway. Ok he wasn't outright supported but he wasn't opposed for quite a while either.

[ciggiesnbeer]

McLeish undeniably had the better start and made more proven signings.

For me the difference is last year I saw a team that was average and unlikely to get much better.

This season I see a team that is very raw and below average but that I think can get much, much better.

Oh also last season I was genuinely embarrassed to watch us play, even when we won it was poor. This season I love watching us play. That matters.

[LondonLax]

McLeish undeniably had the better start and made more proven signings.

For me the difference is last year I saw a team that was average and unlikely to get much better.

This season I see a team that is very raw and below average but that I think can get much, much better.

Oh also last season I was genuinely embarrassed to watch us play, even when we won it was poor. This season I love watching us play. That matters.

Last season I actually had no fear of relegation until Darren Bent got injured (Feb/March maybe?) and we went on a dire run. This season I do fear we will be down there for much of the season because we have such an inexperienced squad very thin on real quality.

I'm hoping the consistency will come as people on here are saying but there are still nagging doubts for me.

[Mantis]

McLeish undeniably had the better start and made more proven signings.

For me the difference is last year I saw a team that was average and unlikely to get much better.

This season I see a team that is very raw and below average but that I think can get much, much better.

Oh also last season I was genuinely embarrassed to watch us play, even when we won it was poor. This season I love watching us play. That matters.

Last season I actually had no fear of relegation until Darren Bent got injured (Feb/March maybe?) and we went on a dire run. This season I do fear we will be down there for much of the season because we have such an inexperienced squad very thin on real quality.

I'm hoping the consistency will come as people on here are saying but there are still nagging doubts for me.

While our squad is vastly less experienced than last season's, I also think it has more quality. You can have all the experience in the world (e.g. Warnock) but if you're shit then of what use can you be?

[Jimzk5]

McLeish undeniably had the better start and made more proven signings.

For me the difference is last year I saw a team that was average and unlikely to get much better.

This season I see a team that is very raw and below average but that I think can get much, much better.

Oh also last season I was genuinely embarrassed to watch us play, even when we won it was poor. This season I love watching us play. That matters.

Last season I actually had no fear of relegation until Darren Bent got injured (Feb/March maybe?) and we went on a dire run. This season I do fear we will be down there for much of the season because we have such an inexperienced squad very thin on real quality.

I'm hoping the consistency will come as people on here are saying but there are still nagging doubts for me.

Last season we went on q bad run from November 5th when we beat norwich, we won just 1 more match after that at home. I believe we will be in the mix this season but hopefully go about it in s different way.

[terrytini]

McLeish undeniably had the better start and made more proven signings.

For me the difference is last year I saw a team that was average and unlikely to get much better.

This season I see a team that is very raw and below average but that I think can get much, much better.

Oh also last season I was genuinely embarrassed to watch us play, even when we won it was poor. This season I love watching us play. That matters.

Not Undeniable at all, as I would deny it. In many many ways the start under PL is better. Some don't see it, fair enough, but a lot do.

Absolutely NO WAY will we be anywhere near a relegation fight. For a start there are half a dozen really poor sides in that League, and secondly we have a much better squad than people think. The damage of Houllier and Mclweish has masked it.

And our Manager is a terrific Manager who will do the indefinable things that turn tems into winners.

[PauloBarnesi]

This season I do fear we will be down there for much of the season because we have such an inexperienced squad very thin on real quality.

And last season did we really have a squad bursting full of quality? we it seems had a squad full of experience, but it was disillusioned, without any spirit.

We have a team that has little real quality, but I would argue has some potential. Last year we had nothing that approached potential, as McLeish drummed it out of them. Last year was sooooooo dire...

[CI]

McLeish lost the plot & the dressing room after a solid yet unspectacular start.

We won 1 in 19 in the second phase of the season. Im expecting a much better second phase this time around.

[VillaChris]

I watched your game against WBA, and I'm sorry, but you look certain relegation candidates to me.

.

Do you mean we are certainly down or in the mix with yourselves, QPR, Reading, Saints, Wigan, Swansea & possibly Stoke ?

That's a mini league of 8 as I see it.

I don't think we're even in the mix, we are that dire, players who played out of their skins under Lambert can't even make the bench now.

We're certain for the drop imo, so now you'll only have to look for two sides worse than you.

The other one is called Reading.

[VillaChris]

Last season we were in the top half in November but only had 12 points.

I think it just shows the league is very mediocre beyond the top 8, you could be 9th or 10th or 15th or 16th very easily as there isn't a huge amount of difference between a lot of teams.

[CI]

The very fact we didnt go down last season shows how mediocre the PL is outside of say the top 8.

I think once players have bedded down properly we will start moving up to mid-table stability

[VillaChris]

Yep worth repeating we won 7 games out of 38 last season and still didn't get relegated.

You have to be really poor to be relegated from the premier league unless it's one of those freak seasons when you go down on something like 42 points.

I just don't see it happening.

[Richard]

We had a crap manager and a team who didn't want to play for him combined with a disconnected fanbase not getting behind the team.

No we have the complete opposite to all that. I do not think we will get relegated

[AvfcRigo82]

We will not be relegated, Once this squad finds its feet together will be be a tough unit to break down.