Relegation

[TezzRexx]

Paul Lambert's statistics are quite similar so far compared to his last season.

Also, we have proven on occasion this season so far, that we have a lot of quality, especially for a (mostly young, Prem League inexperienced) team that is still getting to know each other and are willing to work very hard to make games into positive results.

All of PL's signings have impressed me so far from what I have seen of them and I strongly believe that results will only get better.

[TezzRexx]

It's also worth mentioning that I think we'll lose more games than last year, but we'll win more too and subsequently draw less.

[maqroll]

With all the money at stake next year, if we are remotely close to the bottom 3 come January, I'm certain Lerner will spend big, a la Darren Bent 2 years ago.

[Morpheus]

I see no differences in performance levels compared to last season. We are still as inept in front of goal as last season 'smetrov' and because of that i cannot see us giving any Premiership team 'a right hammering.'

You also have to remember we have had an easy start concerning fixtures and have picked up too few points against those teams. What makes you think we're going to score more goals against the better teams in the Premiership? Please don't quote the City game to me as that wasn't in the Premiership.

Perhaps you need to watch us more then. Performances have been much better and I honestly don't know how anybody can deny that.

City counts. That team they put out was easily far better than ours and full of quality players. You're only dismissing that because it wouldn't fit your argument to include it. Games against the big teams are not automatic write-offs like last season and we've proven that already.

You'd think after watching football for so many years people would be able to get their head round the idea that football isn't played on paper. Just because we got hammered by Southampton doesn't mean we can't go on to beat one of the best teams in the league. In fact that's exactly what happened.

I'd refer you to the strict PM sent by the Mods to both of us Mantis. I have noted you interfering in debates i've been having with other VT posters and would ask you to stop that as per under Mod instruction. You will note i was replying to 'smetrov's' post and i actually named who i was replying to. Any further interference in my debates with other posters and i will have no alternative but to report you to the Mods.

This is a forum. People are allowed to discuss things and challenge other members on their points of view. It's not "interference", I'm just merely putting my point of view across as everybody else on here does. Nobody else seems to have a problem with members other than the ones they were addressing responding to their points.

If you don't like people responding to your points then just ignore them.

I watched your game against WBA, and I'm sorry, but you look certain relegation candidates to me.

At least be more subtle.

We see what we wan't to see. We wan't Lambert to succed so we see good in everything.

Just imagine what the mood had been on here with these signings and results if McLeish had still been here?

Playing more attractive football would not have helped...

We wanted McLeish to succeed too. Don't remember anyone saying otherwise. It's not about people seeing what they want to see, people are just recognising that there have been marked improvements on last season.

If McLeish had come in, made shrewd signings, dropped players that needed to be dropped, had us playing with spirit and tried to get us passing the ball more I think he would have got a lot more time. The reason he didn't get a great deal of time is because none of those things were evident and he proved himself to be just as bad as we feared when he was first hired. This "the Villa fans didn't want McLeish to succeed" thing is just a lie perpetuated by the media.

As you well know Mantis both you and i were asked by the mods to avoid each other's posts. Prior to my instructions yesterday which you have ignored and again today I have kept to that agreement and you have certainly not. It is nothing to do with me not wanting other posters to respond to my posts. It is however everything to do with abiding by instruction from the mods and not contravening their rules and regulations of this site.

[CI]

With all the money at stake next year, if we are remotely close to the bottom 3 come January, I'm certain Lerner will spend big, a la Darren Bent 2 years ago.

The January window could be mental in 2013 due to the enhanced PL money from 13/14 season onwards. QPR will no doubt be throwing money about and I can see hyper inflation for joe average players. It would be foolish to get involved but if we are down by the trapdoor it may become inevitable.

[Morpheus]

Thats why CI we should have snapped up players such as Johnson, Berbatov and Adam in this window.

[SikhInTrinity]

Again apart from Adam, the other two would not have joined. Berbatov I don't know how many times I have to tell you would not have come here if we paid him at least 100k, he is on a huge whack at Fulham. Johnson returns up North so don't know what makes you think we would have got him anyway.

[CI]

Charlie Adam ? You cannot be serious !

Berbatov & Johnson are unrealistic as they're both on mega wages.

What we should have done was keep Gary Cahill and build a team around him.

[AvfcRigo82]

Thats why CI we should have snapped up players such as Johnson, Berbatov and Adam in this window.

I am afraid I have to disagree with you on that one.

Berbatov is just a sulky person who could be a poison on any dressing room and this type of player should be kept well away from Villa Park.

I pressume we are mentioning Adam johnson? I remember when MON approached him when he was at boro and he did not wish to move south then and I don't think that would have changed 4 years later, hence why we ended up with Downing.

As for charlie adam, Il pretend I never read that! :winkold:

[LondonLax]

Thats why CI we should have snapped up players such as Johnson, Berbatov and Adam in this window.

What makes you think Berbatov would have chosen us over his old manager back in London?

He was not an option for us even if we'd wanted him so there is no point banging that drum over and over again.

[kevangrealish]

Charlie Adam ? You cannot be serious !

Berbatov & Johnson are unrealistic as they're both on mega wages.

What we should have done was keep Gary Cahill and build a team around him.

Build a team around one Centre back ... ? srs bro ? Unless it was like Thiago Silva i dont see the point in that at all...

And i havent been on VT in a while and come back to morpheus and mantis hahaa

[djamfisher]

Thats why CI we should have snapped up players such as Johnson, Berbatov and Adam in this window.

I think you've totally misunderstood the premise that Lambert is working within, and the way he's going about it. Johnson was asking for ridiculous wages, so would not have been anpotion as he does not fall within the wage structure.

The same as BErbatov I presemu, but also he is coming to the end of his time at the top, so there would be no re-sale value to him.

Adam hasn't shown anything to suggest he would majorly improve our team. Especially his lack of pace and energy when not in possession of the ball. Also, not exaclty sure about his wages. Remember there were still players like Warnock and Hutton cloggig the wage bill.

Lambert is building gradually with young, hungry players. Thiswill takee time but will pay off in bucket loads in years to come, IMO. The players he buys will either achieve decent things with this club, or will prove themselves attractive purchases to other teams for big resale values, andwe can then re-invest the money in the club. Okay not all of the purchases will come off but at least he's getting value for money.

[Stevo985]

I think Benteke COULD turn out to be a better signing than Berbatov would have been.

I'm not saying Benteke is better than Berbatov. But he cost less (I think?), he's on far lower wages, he's probably hungrier, he's younger, could be here for longer, and if and when he does go he may well have a much higher resale value than berbatov would have, given his age.

Short term, Berbatov would have been great. Long term, Benteke makes more sense in a lot of ways.

[Big_John_10]

I still think Steven Fletcher would have been a very good signing for us.

[Mantis]

As you well know Mantis both you and i were asked by the mods to avoid each other's posts. Prior to my instructions yesterday which you have ignored and again today I have kept to that agreement and you have certainly not. It is nothing to do with me not wanting other posters to respond to my posts. It is however everything to do with abiding by instruction from the mods and not contravening their rules and regulations of this site.

Actually the mods asked that we "not continue arguments over multiple pages and threads". I have also kept to that agreement as I've been responding only to your points in specific threads and not digging up arguments from long ago.

Thats why CI we should have snapped up players such as Johnson, Berbatov and Adam in this window.

What exactly is so great about Adam anyway?

I think Benteke COULD turn out to be a better signing than Berbatov would have been.

I'm not saying Benteke is better than Berbatov. But he cost less (I think?), he's on far lower wages, he's probably hungrier, he's younger, could be here for longer, and if and when he does go he may well have a much higher resale value than berbatov would have, given his age.

Short term, Berbatov would have been great. Long term, Benteke makes more sense in a lot of ways.

Yeah I agree with this. This was my point earlier. Berbatov may have been good in the short term but in the long term it would have been a poor purchase. The club has been operating with only the short term in mind for far too long.

[PieFacE]

I still think Steven Fletcher would have been a very good signing for us.

Agreed. Said at the time he's a really good player and I've always rated him. For 15m though? No.... should have got him when he left Burnley.

[Morpheus]

As you well know Mantis both you and i were asked by the mods to avoid each other's posts. Prior to my instructions yesterday which you have ignored and again today I have kept to that agreement and you have certainly not. It is nothing to do with me not wanting other posters to respond to my posts. It is however everything to do with abiding by instruction from the mods and not contravening their rules and regulations of this site.

Actually the mods asked that we "not continue arguments over multiple pages and threads". I have also kept to that agreement as I've been responding only to your points in specific threads and not digging up arguments from long ago.

Thats why CI we should have snapped up players such as Johnson, Berbatov and Adam in this window.

What exactly is so great about Adam anyway?

I think Benteke COULD turn out to be a better signing than Berbatov would have been.

I'm not saying Benteke is better than Berbatov. But he cost less (I think?), he's on far lower wages, he's probably hungrier, he's younger, could be here for longer, and if and when he does go he may well have a much higher resale value than berbatov would have, given his age.

Short term, Berbatov would have been great. Long term, Benteke makes more sense in a lot of ways.

Yeah I agree with this. This was my point earlier. Berbatov may have been good in the short term but in the long term it would have been a poor purchase. The club has been operating with only the short term in mind for far too long.

We were sent identical messages Mantis which instructed both of us to leave our respective posts alone. There was nothing else specified and i will now leave it to the mods to instruct as they see fit!

[Morpheus]

Charlie Adam ? You cannot be serious !

Berbatov & Johnson are unrealistic as they're both on mega wages.

What we should have done was keep Gary Cahill and build a team around him.

Remember CI we bid for Clint Dempsey. Would he not also have been on 'mega wages?'

Charlie Adam in my humble opinion is still better than anything we have got in midfield at the moment.

[Morpheus]

Again apart from Adam, the other two would not have joined. Berbatov I don't know how many times I have to tell you would not have come here if we paid him at least 100k, he is on a huge whack at Fulham. Johnson returns up North so don't know what makes you think we would have got him anyway.

Are you in contact with either the board at Fulham or our club to know exactly what wages Berbatov would have accepted?

If you are then thats fair enough but if your not and just relying on a hunch or reports in the tabloids then it could have been at least a possibility that Berbatov would have come to our club.

You also forget that we were prepared to pay the wages of Clint Dempsey unless that was a fake bid?

[stanthemanisgod]

Clint Demspey may have been at the top end of what we're willling to pay.

We've had this conversation on at least one other thread, we do have room to pay some players high end wages, Bent, Given, Gabby, Ireland etc. Dempsey probably would have slotted into that group, but we never even got close to discussing terms with him so it's all academic. we might have bid for him and then failed to agree terms, it happens in footy.

What is implied in the way we did business is that we could not have afforded to sign Adam, Johnson and Berbatov and keep Bent, Ireland, Gabby and probably even Given.