Stevo985 Posted August 24, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted August 24, 2015 It's not "simples" though. Our goalkeeper wasn't at fault. I agree about Amavi. The mistake isn't anything to worry about. He'll learn from it. But the mistake was his, not Guzan's. I've not read back through this thread but the idea that he is getting pelters for the last goal is ridiculous to me so I wont even attempt to engage in a debate on that. Why isnt anyone talking about the several decent saves he made throughout the game? It could have been a lot more comfortable for Palace if it hadnt been for Brad. Because the current popular opinion of Guzan is that he's not very good, so focusing on a mistake (that wasn't actually a mistake) suits that argument more. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted August 24, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted August 24, 2015 I'm more concerned with what happened in the corner leading up to Amavi giving the ball away.Bacuna had plenty of time to leave it to go out of play or to Guzan yet headed it away.Now was this Bacuna who looked pretty nervy all games fault or did Guzan not call for the ball ? That's a good point. That looked way more of a cock up. All depends on whether Guzan called for it. If he did then Bacuna to blame. If he didn't then Guzan. Should have communicated better. See that's actually an error, potentially. But nobody is talking about that one, which is strange! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 How on earth is Guzan getting ANY blame for the winning goal? Probably one of the more mental things I've read on here. If he'd have booted it long, a Palace player wins the header and they score from it, I reckon Guzan would have been blamed for that too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 New goalkeeper please, better than the current one. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyAnty Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 How on earth is Guzan getting ANY blame for the winning goal? Probably one of the more mental things I've read on here. If he'd have booted it long, a Palace player wins the header and they score from it, I reckon Guzan would have been blamed for that too. No because if he had booted it long it would have been out over the sideline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 How on earth is Guzan getting ANY blame for the winning goal? Probably one of the more mental things I've read on here. If he'd have booted it long, a Palace player wins the header and they score from it, I reckon Guzan would have been blamed for that too. It seems that it's the party line to give him shit. Go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabby Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 I'm more concerned with what happened in the corner leading up to Amavi giving the ball away.Bacuna had plenty of time to leave it to go out of play or to Guzan yet headed it away.Now was this Bacuna who looked pretty nervy all games fault or did Guzan not call for the ball ? That's a good point. That looked way more of a cock up. All depends on whether Guzan called for it. If he did then Bacuna to blame. If he didn't then Guzan. Should have communicated better. See that's actually an error, potentially. But nobody is talking about that one, which is strange! I've only seen it once so not sure who is to blame or it's both , either way it was an error and that started the sequence of events which led to the goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 I think the fact Scott Dann tackled amavi shows it was the wrong decision by Guzan. If their CB is close to our lb then a) you haven't waited enough time for the palace players to take the pressure off so we can build from the back or if their CB is near our lb then that means there's space upfront for a big kick. 100% amavi's fault and I don't blame Guzan at all for the goal. But its still a poor decision from the keeper. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swerbs Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 70% Amavi, 30% Guzan's fault. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted August 24, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted August 24, 2015 But our striker was in our own half so punting it upfield would be to nobody, or to players who wouldn't win a header. Plus with Guzan's admittedly ropey distribution it would more than likely end up with a Palace player. Keeping possession is much the safer option. Which Guzan did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 For those thinking it was an error by Guzan, I'll paint a different picture. If Amavi doesn't try to take on Dann, and passes it inside then would it still be an error by Guzan? The Man City one, even if Aguero didn't score it, it was still blatantly an error by Guzan. The only reason it's considered an error is because they scored from it and Guzan is under pressure from the fans currently. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 But our striker was in our own half so punting it upfield would be to nobody, or to players who wouldn't win a header. Plus with Guzan's admittedly ropey distribution it would more than likely end up with a Palace player. Keeping possession is much the safer option. Which Guzan did. Which shows he did it too early. Their CB wasn't back and our forwards weren't up. Keeping possession is smart but we should have done it when the pressure dropped off. For those thinking it was an error by Guzan, I'll paint a different picture. If Amavi doesn't try to take on Dann, and passes it inside then would it still be an error by Guzan? The Man City one, even if Aguero didn't score it, it was still blatantly an error by Guzan. The only reason it's considered an error is because they scored from it and Guzan is under pressure from the fans currently. It's not an error. It's just a poor decision. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted August 24, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted August 24, 2015 By that logic, it was a poor decision by whoever gave Guzan that backpass which he then **** up against Man City. You can't hold a player accountable because another player **** up, just because it was he who gave him the ball. As Stefan indicated, it's a routine pass. If Amavi had dealt with it like he would do 99% of the time then this isn't even a conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Then what's the right decision? I genuinely think whatever decision he made, if it led to a goal it would be a poor one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 I don't hold him accountable. It's 100% on amavi. But I still think it was a poor decision to throw it to him at that moment. Then what's the right decision? I genuinely think whatever decision he made, if it led to a goal it would be a poor one. Hold the ball longer and wait for the pressure to be completely off before rolling it out. Or wait for Gestede to get up and kick to him. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 I think the reason we are still talking about the goal over the other incidents is because it's the one people seem to disagree about. Guzans motives are honourable. I don't think anyone wouldnt agree there has been message from on high to play out from the back. He has got the ball and released it to our most attacking outlet in enough space to move it on. that's all good. The idea that Amavi and the rest of the back 4 and supporting MF players weren't 'switched on' for whatever reason is not Guzan's fault. The idea that maybe Guzan as a senior and experienced player might notice that, or even expect it would suggest it just a bad decision and highlighted by the fact that it set into motion a chain of events which cost us a goal. However the thing that upsets me most is you've made me agree with Jonah. Jonah ffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackbauer24 Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 By that logic, it was a poor decision by whoever gave Guzan that backpass which he then **** up against Man City. You can't hold a player accountable because another player **** up, just because it was he who gave him the ball. As Stefan indicated, it's a routine pass. If Amavi had dealt with it like he would do 99% of the time then this isn't even a conversation. Stevo985 I agree with you 100% but you have been arguing your case for ages so do yourself a favour and leave it be. Like you've stated, it's a witchhunt. He rolls it, it's his fault. He kicks it down field, it comes back, his fault. He kicks it in to touch, it comes back, his fault. He pings a perfect pass to Gabby, who loses it as the Palace defender dribbles past eight players and scores, his fault. He drops it at his feet, decides to go on a marauding run, skipping past the entire palace team and finishes with a thirty yard rocket in to the top corner - good defending by Bacuna to give away corner, Guzan was lucky! I agree with most things you say on here, so probably best to give up being the lone voice of reason in a mob! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 By that logic, it was a poor decision by whoever gave Guzan that backpass which he then **** up against Man City. You can't hold a player accountable because another player **** up, just because it was he who gave him the ball. As Stefan indicated, it's a routine pass. If Amavi had dealt with it like he would do 99% of the time then this isn't even a conversation. Stevo985 I agree with you 100% but you have been arguing your case for ages so do yourself a favour and leave it be. Like you've stated, it's a witchhunt. He rolls it, it's his fault. He kicks it down field, it comes back, his fault. He kicks it in to touch, it comes back, his fault. He pings a perfect pass to Gabby, who loses it as the Palace defender dribbles past eight players and scores, his fault. He drops it at his feet, decides to go on a marauding run, skipping past the entire palace team and finishes with a thirty yard rocket in to the top corner - good defending by Bacuna to give away corner, Guzan was lucky! I agree with most things you say on here, so probably best to give up being the lone voice of reason in a mob! Only you have just used a bunch of extremes to illustrate a point noone was making imo. Theres no witchhunt taking place. just differing opinions. Saying something over and over again doesnt necessarily make it true either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted August 24, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted August 24, 2015 Witch hunt, like I said previously, is the wrong term. However, it absolutely is a case of there being a negative opinion surrounding Guzan at the moment and, as a result, he is being harshly criticised for things we wouldn't have paid any attention to previously. This is just one of those things. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 There's no blame to Guzan for that. It's **** nonsense that people are claiming it. If it was a pass from inside central defence to Amavi, there'd be no blame. Here's our goalkeeper, keeping possession with only a few minutes to go, and being called out as "wrong" for doing it. More great work from VT! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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