Stevo985 Posted August 24, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted August 24, 2015 That's very old fashioned thinking. It's much less risk to keep possession than it is to just punt it back to the opposition. Next time you watch Chelsea or Man City holding onto a result, I bet you their keeper or defenders won't be punting it upfield. They'll be keeping the ball. Yes but their keeper will actually wait until half of their players have actually got into their positions before throwing it out. It was stupid from Guzan and then stupid from Amavi. A keeper has the whole picture of the pitch and what the situation is, that's why they keep hold of it longer to calm it down, considering Palace had been on the attack. I don't think Guzan should be blamed for punting it, but you see better keepers, hold onto the ball longer to calm the whole game down. Guzan did wait. People keep saying he was being hasty. He wasn't. he had the ball for 8 seconds (2 seconds longer than he's allowed to have it according to the laws of the game). He rolled the ball to a player who was free. That player got himself into trouble. Guzan did nothing wrong. Literally nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhInTrinity Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 That's very old fashioned thinking. It's much less risk to keep possession than it is to just punt it back to the opposition. Next time you watch Chelsea or Man City holding onto a result, I bet you their keeper or defenders won't be punting it upfield. They'll be keeping the ball. Yes but their keeper will actually wait until half of their players have actually got into their positions before throwing it out. It was stupid from Guzan and then stupid from Amavi. A keeper has the whole picture of the pitch and what the situation is, that's why they keep hold of it longer to calm it down, considering Palace had been on the attack. I don't think Guzan should be blamed for punting it, but you see better keepers, hold onto the ball longer to calm the whole game down. Guzan did wait. People keep saying he was being hasty. He wasn't. he had the ball for 8 seconds (2 seconds longer than he's allowed to have it according to the laws of the game). He rolled the ball to a player who was free. That player got himself into trouble. Guzan did nothing wrong. Literally nothing. You know that law is never adhered too anyway. You will see keepers keeping the ball for much longer. I think you debating about Guzan is literally pointless, even if he threw the ball into his own net, you'd come up with some excuse about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted August 24, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted August 24, 2015 (edited) Of course I wouldn't. He made an absolute howler against Man City last season that was inexcusable. If he makes an error I'll criticise him for it. But on Saturday he didn't. Our left back did. But for some reason Guzan seems to be getting the flak for it. It's ridiculous, and it's all born out of the negative opinion surrounding him. Like I said before, if he'd done that 2 seasons ago when the opinion of him was high nobody would have batted an eyelid. it wouldn't even have been mentioned as possibly being an error. Edited August 24, 2015 by Stevo985 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhInTrinity Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Of course I wouldn't. He made an absolute howler against Man City last season that was inexcusable. If he makes an error I'll criticise him for it. But on Saturday he didn't. Our left back did. But for some reason Guzan seems to be getting the flak for it. It's ridiculous, and it's all born out of the negative opinion surrounding him. Like I said before, if he'd done that 2 seasons ago when the opinion of him was high nobody would have batted an eyelid. it wouldn't even have been mentioned as possibly being an error. He made an error on Saturday, you will see no top keeper doing what he did with two minutes to go, I've seen some keepers at VP keep the ball for literally 10 to 15 seconds after they've claimed a corner and that's in the middle of a game, our keeper decides to release it after 8 seconds with two minutes to go. He really wasn't that great two seasons ago either. He's an average keeper and will remain to be IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted August 24, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted August 24, 2015 You'll see no top keeper pass it to their full back? Really? Do you honestly believe that? I'd argue you wouldn't see any top fullbacks lose the ball deep in their own half. I didn't give an opinion on his ability two seasons ago. My point was about the opinion of him, which was high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Of course I wouldn't. He made an absolute howler against Man City last season that was inexcusable. If he makes an error I'll criticise him for it. But on Saturday he didn't. Our left back did. But for some reason Guzan seems to be getting the flak for it. It's ridiculous, and it's all born out of the negative opinion surrounding him. Like I said before, if he'd done that 2 seasons ago when the opinion of him was high nobody would have batted an eyelid. it wouldn't even have been mentioned as possibly being an error. If he'd have rolled the ball out to Bennett I'd have crucified him for it, even in the 1st minute Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Of course I wouldn't. He made an absolute howler against Man City last season that was inexcusable. If he makes an error I'll criticise him for it. But on Saturday he didn't. Our left back did. But for some reason Guzan seems to be getting the flak for it. It's ridiculous, and it's all born out of the negative opinion surrounding him. Like I said before, if he'd done that 2 seasons ago when the opinion of him was high nobody would have batted an eyelid. it wouldn't even have been mentioned as possibly being an error. If he'd have rolled the ball out to Bennett I'd have crucified him for it, even in the 1st minute Maybe that's what he's trying to do? Since Bennet is mostly in the stands or on the bench it would explain why Guzan keeps missing the pitch with his kick 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhInTrinity Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 You'll see no top keeper pass it to their full back? Really? Do you honestly believe that? I'd argue you wouldn't see any top fullbacks lose the ball deep in their own half. I didn't give an opinion on his ability two seasons ago. My point was about the opinion of him, which was high. You will see no top keeper not assess the situation, seeing that half of the Palace team hadn't even got upfield before distributing the ball out with two minutes to go of a game that they weren't losing in. So yes Really!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted August 24, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted August 24, 2015 But he did assess the situation. He gave it to a fullback in space, with options inside him. We should have easily kept possession from there. How was he supposed to know Amavi would **** it up from there? I really don't understand this. It's like saying whoever passed the ball back to Guzan in that Man City game is to blame because Guzan **** it up, because they shouldn't have passed him the ball. It's mental. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted August 24, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted August 24, 2015 One simple first touch pass from Amavi inside and nobody would even be talking about this. We wouldn't be saying "Oh christ we got away with one there!" It's the kind of pass you see dozens of times in every single game. Yet we're crucifying our keeper for it. I can't get my head around it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhInTrinity Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Hang on did I say Amavi was not at fault? He's equally at fault as is the keeper. You are saying Guzan, this great keeper who let's not forget has played over 100 games, with two minutes to go decides to throw the ball out after 8 seconds when the players haven't even got into their position. It was a stupid decision. You will never get your head around people criticising Guzan, I seem to remember you had the same faith in Carson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabby Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 I'm more concerned with what happened in the corner leading up to Amavi giving the ball away.Bacuna had plenty of time to leave it to go out of play or to Guzan yet headed it away.Now was this Bacuna who looked pretty nervy all games fault or did Guzan not call for the ball ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhInTrinity Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 I'm more concerned with what happened in the corner leading up to Amavi giving the ball away.Bacuna had plenty of time to leave it to go out of play or to Guzan yet headed it away.Now was this Bacuna who looked pretty nervy all games fault or did Guzan not call for the ball ? Guzan did very well to claim to the ball, but with two mins to go I cannot see why the hell you'd want to counter when it simply wasn't on, none of the other players were looking to counter either. You as an experienced keeper would calm the situation down, I don't know what's so hard to understand in this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted August 24, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted August 24, 2015 Hang on did I say Amavi was not at fault? He's equally at fault as is the keeper. You are saying Guzan, this great keeper who let's not forget has played over 100 games, with two minutes to go decides to throw the ball out after 8 seconds when the players haven't even got into their position. It was a stupid decision. You will never get your head around people criticising Guzan, I seem to remember you had the same faith in Carson. So the criticism has now changed to Guzan distributing the ball too quickly? Goalposts have moved but whatever. I don't see that as a problem as long as he distributes it to one of our players. Which he did. If Amavi had passed it inside to one of the 3 free players and we'd mounted an attack, would you still be criticising Guzan? Would you be saying he should have held onto it for 15 seconds instead? I had no faith in Carson, although I don't see the relevance. He was crap. What I did do was defend him when I thought he was receiving unjust criticism. In the second half of the season Carson got blamed for almost every single goal on here. If you believed VT then we'd have won the league that year with a good goalkeeper because about 95% of the goals were glaring errors from Carson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weedman Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 I do wonder how much blame would be given to Guzan and what the general reaction on here would be had it been Gabby that he'd rolled the ball to, who has subsequently lost it and we conceded a goal. I largely suspect that Guzan would be given approximately 0% blame for the goal, and Gabby would receive approximately 0% of the leeway Amavi is getting, just my thoughts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted August 24, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted August 24, 2015 (edited) I do wonder how much blame would be given to Guzan and what the general reaction on here would be had it been Gabby that he'd rolled the ball to, who has subsequently lost it and we conceded a goal. I largely suspect that Guzan would be given approximately 0% blame for the goal, and Gabby would receive approximately 0% of the leeway Amavi is getting, just my thoughts Exactly right. I made the point earlier. If he'd given that ball to Hutton, or Joe Bennett, or Cissokho then it wouldn't even be mentioned. I'd also say that if Bunn had done it it wouldn't have been mentioned either. Genuine question, has anyone seen any pundit, commentator or reporter even mention Guzan when talking about this goal? Edited August 24, 2015 by Stevo985 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhInTrinity Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 I do wonder how much blame would be given to Guzan and what the general reaction on here would be had it been Gabby that he'd rolled the ball to, who has subsequently lost it and we conceded a goal. I largely suspect that Guzan would be given approximately 0% blame for the goal, and Gabby would receive approximately 0% of the leeway Amavi is getting, just my thoughts Nonsense, Amavi is to blame it was absolutely nuts to do what he did, but no blame for Guzan? It was a combined error by both IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weedman Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 I do wonder how much blame would be given to Guzan and what the general reaction on here would be had it been Gabby that he'd rolled the ball to, who has subsequently lost it and we conceded a goal. I largely suspect that Guzan would be given approximately 0% blame for the goal, and Gabby would receive approximately 0% of the leeway Amavi is getting, just my thoughts Exactly right. I made the point earlier. If he'd given that ball to Hutton, or Joe Bennett, or Cissokho then it wouldn't even be mentioned. I'd also say that if Bunn had done it it wouldn't have been mentioned either. Genuine question, has anyone seen any pundit, commentator or reporter even mention Guzan when talking about this goal? Even on the other side if he'd rolled it to Bacuna it would all be down to Bacuna, easy to criticise a player you don't rate, and slack off on a player you do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 They were both at fault. Simples. The issue is that one of the players is a young player playing in a new league and will make mistakes now and again. The other is one of our experienced players who is supposed to lead by example and organise our team. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaglint Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 I've not read back through this thread but the idea that he is getting pelters for the last goal is ridiculous to me so I wont even attempt to engage in a debate on that. Why isnt anyone talking about the several decent saves he made throughout the game? It could have been a lot more comfortable for Palace if it hadnt been for Brad. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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