rodders0223 Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 3 hours ago, NurembergVillan said: I think the injection of TV cash has changed that type of thinking. That Stoke team has got Butland and Shawcross as England internationals, and they've got Bojan, Arnautovic and Shaqiri in midfield / attack. That's five players right there who are head and shoulders above anything Villa have and would get into most matchday squads outside the top four. In the case of Butland and Shawcross they'd get into a couple in the top four as well... lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 21 hours ago, tonyh29 said: Top 6 should have been the minimum I think baring an FA cup win it's almost inevitable he will be parting ways such has been the underperformance form them this season .... but he wouldn't come here , he's already turned us down before , and I doubt we would ask him again good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted April 7, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted April 7, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, Zatman said: I would say Wenger is worse with defenders, Cech, Lehmann, Ospina were good keepers and even Szczeny has potential but still not mature yet. His defensive signings are an aberration, hasnt signed a top centre half in 15 years and is the main reason they wont win a league anytime soon KosGOAT? Okay, he's obviously not GOAT, but he's still a "top" defender. Edited April 7, 2016 by PieFacE 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted April 7, 2016 Moderator Share Posted April 7, 2016 Martinez has Coleman, Baines, Stones & Jagielka with that Funes Mori bloke now gate-crashing the party. They are far from ordinary defenders. They've also got the likes of McCarthy, Besic, Barry or Cleverley protecting in front of them. Now if they were middle of the road statistically that would be poor, but the fact they're 19th in home defence, one solitary goal better than Aston Villa is a huge indictment on the manager's ability to organise a defence. That they're 2nd in away defence is just as baffling. They sit 15th overall. It suggests their style of play at home needs looking at. As for Arsenal, I think Cech was Wenger just giving up on speculating. That was him just admitting he can't spot a decent keeper and just going out and buying the blatantly obvious finished article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted April 7, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted April 7, 2016 4 hours ago, Demitri_C said: I disagree southampton are a better side in my opinion. maybe on par with Stoke. Dem, every benchmark you come up with, Everton are still failing at. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 (edited) 5 hours ago, Zatman said: I would say Wenger is worse with defenders, Cech, Lehmann, Ospina were good keepers and even Szczeny has potential but still not mature yet. His defensive signings are an aberration, hasnt signed a top centre half in 15 years and is the main reason they wont win a league anytime soon But what about 'KosGOAT'? EDIT: Dammit PieFaCe get off my lawn *shakes fist* Edited April 7, 2016 by HanoiVillan 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 (edited) i think Arsenal's squad is capable of winning the league, the problem to me is fitness. whether it is injuries or just fatigue toward the end of games, they aren't as fit and strong as the top teams and haven't been for some time. the old arsenal, manchester united, chelsea & city all had a balance between skill and physicality when they won the title. in my mind, as leicester and spurs are proving to a degree, that having highly paid expensive players across the pitch won't win you the league - outperforming your opposition consistently is about fitness as it is about skill. further to that, many blame the Heskey transfer window as the key turning point in our season and perhaps sparked the downfall of the club, but we always had a nightmare month around march/april when we looked shattered. if we were fitter, we may have got top 4. relating this back to Everton: i can't. oops. Edited April 7, 2016 by CarewsEyebrowDesigner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 5 hours ago, Stevo985 said: Dem, every benchmark you come up with, Everton are still failing at. Like I said I think they are on par with Stoke no better no worse. 6th to 10th like I said is a achievement. Any less not a good season my view Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted April 7, 2016 Share Posted April 7, 2016 1 hour ago, Demitri_C said: Like I said I think they are on par with Stoke no better no worse. 6th to 10th like I said is a achievement. Any less not a good season my view but they finished 11th last season and 12th this season so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 10 hours ago, Zatman said: but they finished 11th last season and 12th this season so far So they have stayed the same, Id love to be in that position about now Zatman!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted April 8, 2016 Moderator Share Posted April 8, 2016 I see this is the Penrose Steps method of discussion 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted April 8, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted April 8, 2016 14 hours ago, Demitri_C said: Like I said I think they are on par with Stoke no better no worse. 6th to 10th like I said is a achievement. Any less not a good season my view Are you trolling? They're behind Stoke. They're 12th now. They finished 11th last season. So by all the benchmarks you keep setting, they're still doing poorly against. You're not proving your point at all. In fact you're doing the opposite. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 I've just had a scan through the the last few pages and has Dem actually said they aren't doing poorly by the benchmarks he's setting? From what I can see he's simply disagreeing the Everton squad is as good as is being suggested, top 6 quality, which I'd agree with personally. Not arguing they are having a good season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted April 8, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted April 8, 2016 He's saying they should be level with Stoke, which they're not, level with Southampton, which they're not, or top 10, which they're not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 9 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: He's saying they should be level with Stoke, which they're not, level with Southampton, which they're not, or top 10, which they're not. Ok let me break this down abit as we have seemed to get ourselves in a muddle here. In my view their current squad should be finishing between 6th and 10th, currently not hitting that so not a good season for them . stoke I would also classify in same group as them. My point and original point if you read the last few pages is that Everton are not a top four club at present like some have suggested should be challenging that. West Ham are only where they are because Chelsea, liverpool and United are having such dire seasons. I would argue that leicester might not even be there if Chelsea and United were better this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 25 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Ok let me break this down abit as we have seemed to get ourselves in a muddle here. In my view their current squad should be finishing between 6th and 10th, currently not hitting that so not a good season for them . stoke I would also classify in same group as them. My point and original point if you read the last few pages is that Everton are not a top four club at present like some have suggested should be challenging that. West Ham are only where they are because Chelsea, liverpool and United are having such dire seasons. I would argue that leicester might not even be there if Chelsea and United were better this year. ... but that goes without saying I think I know what you're trying to say, but isn't saying it well. Essentially Dem is arguing that if everyone had had their "normal" season, he'd expect Everton to finish between 6th and 10th. But because the "normal" top 4 teams (City, Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arse) aren't having their "normal" season, this has allowed teams like West Ham, Stoke, Southampton etc to bridge the gap and even overtake in some cases. So essentially, Everton this season should be above the West Hams, Stokes & Southamptons because traditionally that's who they've finished above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 Just now, lapal_fan said: ... but that goes without saying I think I know what you're trying to say, but isn't saying it well. Essentially Dem is arguing that if everyone had had their "normal" season, he'd expect Everton to finish between 6th and 10th. But because the "normal" top 4 teams (City, Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arse) aren't having their "normal" season, this has allowed teams like West Ham, Stoke, Southampton etc to bridge the gap and even overtake in some cases. So essentially, Everton this season should be above the West Hams, Stokes & Southamptons because traditionally that's who they've finished above. Sort of. Difference with Everton is their squad isnt that great. Uniteds and Chelseas are and they under-acheiving. For example your telling me an on from hazard, oscar and costa wouldnt walk into leicester's team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 Just now, Demitri_C said: Sort of. Difference with Everton is their squad isnt that great. Uniteds and Chelseas are and they under-acheiving. For example your telling me an on from hazard, oscar and costa wouldnt walk into leicester's team? erm.. help me out a bit Dem, I'm trying to help ya bud 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted April 8, 2016 Moderator Share Posted April 8, 2016 I got out a few pages back Lapal Yet I keep coming back to read. Then I punch myself in the face and head to Off Topic 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 17 minutes ago, lapal_fan said: ... but that goes without saying I think I know what you're trying to say, but isn't saying it well. Essentially Dem is arguing that if everyone had had their "normal" season, he'd expect Everton to finish between 6th and 10th. But because the "normal" top 4 teams (City, Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arse) aren't having their "normal" season, this has allowed teams like West Ham, Stoke, Southampton etc to bridge the gap and even overtake in some cases. So essentially, Everton this season should be above the West Hams, Stokes & Southamptons because traditionally that's who they've finished above. Doeesn't this logic make Everton's season even worse? That even when other teams aren't doing well, they're still 12th? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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