Zatman Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 See the thing is people have speculated a lot that he is enhanced by playing the Barcelona system. Watching him play for Argentina its hard to find an argument against that as he looks lost at times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A'Villan Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 16 minutes ago, Zatman said: See the thing is people have speculated a lot that he is enhanced by playing the Barcelona system. Watching him play for Argentina its hard to find an argument against that as he looks lost at times So does Ronaldo when he's rolling around on the floor wincing when nothing's happened to him. It's not a defining quality of their career, Messi has been brilliant for Argentina. I say that being of the opinion that Messi is the better player. Even though he is obviously enhanced by the Barca system, Ronaldo is enhanced by the quality that surrounds him at Madrid. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 6 minutes ago, A'Villan said: So does Ronaldo when he's rolling around on the floor wincing when nothing's happened to him. It's not a defining quality of their career, Messi has been brilliant for Argentina. I say that being of the opinion that Messi is the better player. Even though he is obviously enhanced by the Barca system, Ronaldo is enhanced by the quality that surrounds him at Madrid. Ronaldo was not enhanced at United when he dominated the Premier League when it was at its best in Europe. Or a Portugal side after the Golden Generation of Figo, Rui Costa etc. and he is on to be the first European to get 100 international goals 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A'Villan Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Zatman said: Ronaldo was not enhanced at United when he dominated the Premier League when it was at its best in Europe. Or a Portugal side after the Golden Generation of Figo, Rui Costa etc. and he is on to be the first European to get 100 international goals Ronaldo has had some pretty spectacular teammates at United, and good at Portugal. United in Ronaldo's 2007-08 season: Tevez, Rooney, Nani, Ferdinand, Evra, Vidic, van der Sar, Giggs, Scholes, Pique. I can't really argue that Messi has not been surrounded by talent at Argentina though, certainly a better team than Portugal in recent years. Edited July 12, 2018 by A'Villan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 i find the "not left barca" argument bizarre, if he played for a shit team then fair enough but he doesnt he plays for the biggest and best team in world football during his career can you imagine if jack grealish had that career at villa, 17 years, 9 PLs, 4 CLs, 6 cups, 5 ballon d'ors....and then one day said you know what im going to go play somewhere else...why would he do that? makes no sense, to test himself? maybe he doesnt want to test himself maybe he wants to keep winning things with the club that he loves... and who does leave barcelona? xavi 17 years, puyol 15 years, iniesta 16 years is it detrimental to any of their careers that they didnt leave to go play for another european team? not a chance 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 4 hours ago, Zatman said: I think move to Serie A is quite risky though. Space wont be there like in La Liga or Premier League. He will still get about 20 goals for them but probably not the 40 he would get now Also players moving from Spain to Italy dont usually tend to do well 2 years ago Higuain got 36 goals. I believe ronaldo will beat that figure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 1 hour ago, Zatman said: Ronaldo was not enhanced at United when he dominated the Premier League when it was at its best in Europe. Or a Portugal side after the Golden Generation of Figo, Rui Costa etc. and he is on to be the first European to get 100 international goals Are you serious? That United team was absolutely stacked and dominated the PL with and without him. He played up front with prime Rooney and Tevez in the period you're talking about...2 of the best forwards in the game at the time. He's always been surrounded by absolute quality, so I feel that you're argument that Messi was simply enhanced by the quality/system around him and Ronaldo wasn't falls flat there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 1 minute ago, Keyblade said: Are you serious? That United team was absolutely stacked and dominated the PL with and without him. He played up front with prime Rooney and Tevez in the period you're talking about...2 of the best forwards in the game at the time. He's always been surrounded by absolute quality, so I feel that you're argument that Messi was simply enhanced by the quality/system around him and Ronaldo wasn't falls flat there. United hadnt won the league for 3 or 4 years as Chelsea were dominating and Arsenal went unbeaten. United really were on the ropes and people were saying Fergie should go. They had great defence but average midfield at the time with Scholes and Giggs on the wane. Players like Brown, O'Shea, Fletcher, Park, Anderson and Nani all played a lot of games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Zatman said: United hadnt won the league for 3 or 4 years as Chelsea were dominating and Arsenal went unbeaten. United really were on the ropes and people were saying Fergie should go. They had great defence but average midfield at the time with Scholes and Giggs on the wane. Players like Brown, O'Shea, Fletcher, Park, Anderson and Nani all played a lot of games Chelsea won the title 3 times in the 00's and Arsenal twice. 3 of those 5 titles were won while Ronaldo wasn't even at the club. The other 2 were at at a time where Ronaldo was a young, raw player who was not dominating anything by any stretch of the imagination. United won it the other 5 times in that decade, including 3 times in a row in the era you mentioned where Ronaldo was dominating. How is that seen as Chelsea and Arsenal dominating? If anything it just shows how dominant United were that not winning the title for 2 or 3 seasons was a big deal for them. Edited July 12, 2018 by Keyblade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 2 hours ago, A'Villan said: I can't really argue that Messi has not been surrounded by talent at Argentina though, certainly a better team than Portugal in recent years. Yup - and history gets written weirdly anyway. People talk about “Ronaldo winning the Euros”. He scored 3 goals all tournament; 2 in one group game against Hungary and one against Wales. The team won, and he was a part of it - not the reason they won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 41 minutes ago, bobzy said: Yup - and history gets written weirdly anyway. People talk about “Ronaldo winning the Euros”. He scored 3 goals all tournament; 2 in one group game against Hungary and one against Wales. The team won, and he was a part of it - not the reason they won. He got 3 goals and 3 assists out of 9 goals Portugal scored in Euro 2016 and he was injured in the final so 8 goals he was on pitch for. His goals vs Hungary kept them in the tournament Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 46 minutes ago, Zatman said: He got 3 goals and 3 assists out of 9 goals Portugal scored in Euro 2016 and he was injured in the final so 8 goals he was on pitch for. His goals vs Hungary kept them in the tournament Good stats. I think 2 of those assists were shots of his which were saved/deflected, rather than actual assists. He was pretty much criticised during the tournament too. Portugal failed to win any game until maybe the semis(?) within 90 mins - including the group stage - and he was getting knocked for not living up to the billing. As I say, history gets written weirdly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post will87 Posted July 12, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 12, 2018 All stats aside for me Messi was just better at playing the game of football, better dribbling, passing, vision, and obviously he could finish, he was 3 world class players rolled into one. Ronaldo's caught him up in recent years but when Messi was in his prime he was out on his own IMO, I've never seen a player go past people the way he did. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 They are equals when it comes to goal scoring but Messi does more with the ball and sets other players up more with his great range of passing. So for me Messi has the edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 11 hours ago, will87 said: All stats aside for me Messi was just better at playing the game of football, better dribbling, passing, vision, and obviously he could finish, he was 3 world class players rolled into one. Ronaldo's caught him up in recent years but when Messi was in his prime he was out on his own IMO, I've never seen a player go past people the way he did. Me too. There's a big enough body of work to judge it on, but if others prefer someone else that's fine, even if I can't understand it. The way Messi can completely flummox a defender with a shimmy one way or the other or both is incredible. I don't think I have ever seen him do a stepover in all his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 I prefer Messi, but have to say I have a lot of respect for Ronaldo taking a chance going to Juve 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted July 13, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted July 13, 2018 I don’t think it’s much of a risk. I think Ronaldo knows he’s getting less important at Real and his time there is limited. He’s used his current status to get one last huge move. He’s moving to an inferior league and to a more dominant team. He’ll smash that league to pieces for a couple of seasons, no bother. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 8 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: I don’t think it’s much of a risk. I think Ronaldo knows he’s getting less important at Real and his time there is limited. He’s used his current status to get one last huge move. He’s moving to an inferior league and to a more dominant team. He’ll smash that league to pieces for a couple of seasons, no bother. Yup - not really a risk. Cynically, I think he knows he can't better Messi in La Liga so is heading elsewhere to beat records in that country. Serie A top goalscorer in a season currently stands at 36 (Higuain) - I think Ronaldo fancies a shot at bettering that. Messi's record in La Liga? 50. Not a chance he's topping it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 If true then it proves again he is a selfish dickehead, was similar stories with youth players at Barcelona Quote Report Sheds New Light On Messi Influence On The National Team A report by Argentinian news outlet Clarín claims to give an insight into the amount of power wielded by Lionel Messi in the Argentina national team. The report details two incidents involving the Barcelona playmaker, one before a friendly with Spain in March and another while the team were in Russia at this year's World Cup. The first incident took place in Manchester at a training camp before the Spain match, where Messi was unhappy with assistant coach Sebastian Beccacece after he corrected the Argentina captain during a session. Clarin claims that Messi was angered by Beccacece touching his shoulder and reportedly asked Argentina manager Jorge Sampaoli that something like that never happen again. The second incident which Clarín cite is that Messi advised Sampaoli not to play Roma defender Federico Fazio and PSG midfielder Giovani Lo Celso due to the supposed weaknesses in their respective games. Fazio only minutes for Argentina came in the the second half in the last 16 defeat to France, while Lo Celso didn’t make a single appearance at the World Cup. The article then sensationally claims that Messi's dislike of Lo Celso stems from a game of football tennis, which the Barcelona man lost heavily, although sources close to the player have denied this to be the case. https://www.balls.ie/football/lionel-messi-influence-argentina-392771 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 theres a proper waft of bullshit floating over that lo celso story 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts