nik986 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 I can honestly say I would have swapped downing for insomnia at any stage so I'm delighted! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brommy Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Are we agreeing that he is better than Downing? Well I am, certainly. Not for me. Downing is more consistant but N'Zogbia can do the spectacular and pull something out of nothing. That is why Liverpool looked at both and decided to pay the extra £10m, for that consistancy. Glad we finally look like signing him. I really hope that it is not the end of our summer though. I suspect the extra £10m was mostly due to Downing having 100% longer on his contract and a significant premium for an English player. There is one other reason but I'm wary of starting a backlash from the VT depressives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 301 - Only Lionel Messi (331) attempted more dribbles than Charles N'Zogbia (301) in the top five European leagues in 2010/11. Mazy Does it say how many were succesful and how many ended up giving the ball away? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazrim Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Sometimes there is such a thing as credit where it's due. Very true, but conversely there must also be questions asked when the situation dictates. I've said it before, but I honestly believe this haggling over the N'Zogbia fee would not have occured if we'd brought him in before selling Downing. Not for the want of sounding like a broken record, but we needlessly weakened our own bargaining posture and have had to pay cold hard cash as a result. Won't argue that. Letting Downing go before signing N'Zogbia was stupid. I said so too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shillzz Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 A midfield 5 of NZogbia, Makoun, Ireland, Petrov and Albrighton sounds quite tasty in fairness. Yes, we're being gently screwed by the board, but I think we could do surprisingly well this year. (When I say surprisingly well I mean 7th - 10th). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarethRDR Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 I think his performances in the second half of the season though, especially during the run-in, would have pushed his price up. So whilst it's true he's six months nearer the end of his contract, he's also a more visibly important asset who's delivered during a very difficult period for his club. That the price is on an extra 500k due to him going into the last year of his contract shows what a bargain we're getting. Top player - quick, skillful, versatile. Scores and creates goals so is certain to be a key figure. Well put, but it is ultimately the (ever-depreciating) contract we're buying out and not the player. Accounting for his performances, I'd expect that the asking price would be static but I wouldn't expect it to go up. Not unless we made the rather short-sighted move of clearing out the entirety of a position before bringing in any replacements, which sadly we did. That is the source of my lament. I also worry that the "better than Downing" shouts are somewhat premature; I've no doubt about N'Zogbia's ability to produce that bit of magic that can create something from nothing, but for me there remains questions marks over consistency and temperament. For the sake of our own sanity, let's see what N'Zogbia produces on the pitch first. That said, I am happy he's (apparently) signing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 25, 2011 Moderator Share Posted July 25, 2011 Do I have to say this again, it is not 6 months it is an entire year that his price has risen from £9mil. The sha bid was not in January, it was a year ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 25, 2011 Moderator Share Posted July 25, 2011 Sometimes there is such a thing as credit where it's due. Very true, but conversely there must also be questions asked when the situation dictates. I've said it before, but I honestly believe this haggling over the N'Zogbia fee would not have occured if we'd brought him in before selling Downing. Not for the want of sounding like a broken record, but we needlessly weakened our own bargaining posture and have had to pay cold hard cash as a result. Won't argue that. Letting Downing go before signing N'Zogbia was stupid. I said so too. Not sure it matters, sign NZog first and its easy for Liverpool to think that we NEED to sell Downing to pay for NZog, keeping Downings sale price lower. Swings n roundabouts methinks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieB Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Do I have to say this again, it is not 6 months it is an entire year that his price has risen from £9mil. The sha bid was not in January, it was a year ago. Well said Bicks! And as Mcleish will have known EXACTLY how much the bid that was acceptable to Wigan Athletic last August, then I can beleive Villa being more than miffed about having to pay more 12 months later! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSV Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 who cares about how much he cost.. hes soon to be wearing claret and blue and he will be some player for us. Bring in a freebie or loan player next i suppose.. (according to Firecrotch) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarethRDR Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 I honestly thought it was January. I'm now slightly more perturbed we've had to shell out. Anyways, happy he's here all the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 It will interesting to see the length of contract offered. Four years has been the standard for deals such as this but we've repeatedly found ourselves in positions where we've either had to sell or face the challenge of keeping a player focussed who's had his head turned only halfway through such a contract. He will be on high wages, no doubt, but I'd like to think we have heeded the lessons hard learnt by the departures of Barry, Milner, Young and Downing by agreeing a five year deal that will at least ensure it is the club, rather than the player, who is in the stronger position should his performances over the next season or two attract the attentions of others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazrim Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Unfortunately, when you sell or buy a player for a certain amount you are setting your stall out. You're making a precedent. So if in a certain window (and lets face it, transfer windows are fickle, turmultuous beasts) you recieve a bid from a club that has bought Jordan Henderson for £20m and Downing has 2 years on his contract, the price is £20m to that club and then likelwise you have a premium on a player you want. Because if Downing is worth £20m with two years on his contract then N'Zogbia is worth £10 with one...etc. What he nearly went to Blose for a year ago is very little to do with it. Its the nature of the market at any given time. N'Zogbia at £9.5m is a good price, we haven't stole him and we certainly haven't had our pants pulled down either. He'll be a fine player for us and exactly what we need after Young going. It's good business anyway you slice it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam2003 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 The thing is, N'Zogbia is a winger, but more of a goalscoring forward/winger than Downing. If we play Bent up front on his own, with three men behind him, having players who are desperate to get up alongside him and score becomes increasingly important. N'Zogbia becomes effectively both a winger and a second striker. When we played Bent up front on his own with Downing and Young wide, he was isolated unless we were counter-attacking. I don't see that happening with N'Zogbia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brommy Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 I've said it before, but I honestly believe this haggling over the N'Zogbia fee would not have occured if we'd brought him in before selling Downing. Not for the want of sounding like a broken record, but we needlessly weakened our own bargaining posture and have had to pay cold hard cash as a result. I disagree and don't believe it would have been any different if we had dealt before SD's departure. Whelan would have used the AY £16m as his lever instead. Should we have dealt before selling AY? Well Whelan would have known, as we all did, that AY was leaving for at least £15m so his position was ready made before the end of the season. We might have been able to get CNZ for £9m back in January but then we'd have one of AY, SD or CNZ on the bench for 5 months costing more than the £500k saved. I say well done to BOTH parties for agreeing a fee. Whelan wanted to maximise his income and took a shine to the nice round figure of £10m. Villa wanted to stick to the principle that CNZ was originally up for £9m. It takes maturity from both parties to agree as they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam2003 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 What he nearly went to Blose for a year ago is very little to do with it. Its the nature of the market at any given time. Plus he's taken his game to a new level over the last 12 months IMHO. Really hope there are no snags here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houlston Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Mackems are gutted ha ha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilchard Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Let's hope his wages aren't a problem for the club... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biskitt Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Said earlier this thread we'd split the difference with Wigan at £9.5m and glad to be proven right. Still think it's a very good price for a player of his calibre who seems to be getting better and more influential as he gets older. Lets hope it all goes through ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villabromsgrove Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Sometimes there is such a thing as credit where it's due. Very true, but conversely there must also be questions asked when the situation dictates. I've said it before, but I honestly believe this haggling over the N'Zogbia fee would not have occured if we'd brought him in before selling Downing. Not for the want of sounding like a broken record, but we needlessly weakened our own bargaining posture and have had to pay cold hard cash as a result. Fair enough that it's "only" £500k more and it can quite rightly be stated that the deal as a whole might represent good value given the player's potential ability, but this is coming at a time when the mandate from above is to save, not to splurge and I find it somewhat galling therefore, that through the club's own naïveté we have been forced to fork out more than we really should have. Gareth you're often spot on with your posts but not this time (imo of course). If we had bought N'zogbia before Downing was sold Liverpool would probably not have stumped up 20 Million for Downing. It would have seemed likely to them that a bid of approximately 17/18 Million with a final agreement of 19 Million after negotiations would have got the deal done. With Randy's sustainable wage bill policy being common knowledge, also knowing that Villa had bought the Zog for 9 Million before SD's sale and AM already talking up Albrighton, would very likely have meant that L'pool would not then have felt the need to pay the extra premium for a possibly "irreplaceable" player. (which was SD's status at the time he was sold) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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