villalad21 Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 1 hour ago, The_Steve said: Short of Jack having a relegation release clause, he’s not going anywhere. F***. Totally forgot about that rumour. Would be disastrous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 13 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said: Probably call them 'world class'. It goes 'top player', then 'top, top player' then 'world class' judging from Sky punditry. Top player and world class is the same thing to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 33 minutes ago, Zhan_Zhuang said: Anyone know how good Roma were during Francesco Totti's time? Not trying to compare the two as I genuinely don't know about Italian football, but if Grealish stays could he stay for his whole career? They weren't battling relegation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 16 minutes ago, sir_gary_cahill said: Top player and world class is the same thing to me For me World class is just for those very special players like Messi, Ronaldo and Suarez. I wouldn't even call Aguero world class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 12 minutes ago, villalad21 said: They weren't battling relegation except the season they stayed up by 4 points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 47 minutes ago, Zhan_Zhuang said: Anyone know how good Roma were during Francesco Totti's time? Not trying to compare the two as I genuinely don't know about Italian football, but if Grealish stays could he stay for his whole career? They won 1 title and finished 2nd 9 times but Totti had a much better supporting cast than Grealish had Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 30 minutes ago, PaulC said: For me World class is just for those very special players like Messi, Ronaldo and Suarez. I wouldn't even call Aguero world class. I would call Aguero world class, he doesn’t get the recognition he deserves for me 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 1 hour ago, nick76 said: Because Shearer decided not to go to Man U twice......twice! he wanted to go to Newcastle. He has said many times that was the right decision and he never regrets it yet you, who doesn’t know him, believe he’s not telling the truth.....just the audacity of you saying that. Le Tiss was happy at Southampton with the same feelings. TBF to Shearer when he joined Newcastle in summer 96 they'd just finished second in the league and obviously should've won the title with the lead they blew. They then finished 2nd in 96/97 and qualified for champions league although Shearer broke his leg and missed that. It's not like he chose Newcastle when they were bottom half like they are now. Also played in two FA cup finals with them and then under Sir Bobby Robson they made the champions league in 02/03 season. Will Jack Grealish play for us in the champions league in the next five years? I would say it's pretty doubtful unless we really up our game on transfers and general mentality at the club. If we aren't then what will he be staying for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 42 minutes ago, PaulC said: For me World class is just for those very special players like Messi, Ronaldo and Suarez. I wouldn't even call Aguero world class. Suarez is far from world class now, hasnt produced in Europe in a long time. 8 goals in the Champions League in the last 4 seasons is woeful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-R Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 5 hours ago, PaulC said: For me World class is just for those very special players like Messi, Ronaldo and Suarez. I wouldn't even call Aguero world class. For me world class is international level players, not many players get picked to play for there nationality, the best of the best of each nation play the world cup, euros so on. Top players play at the very top of a country's leagues but even top players may not see national world stage play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 5 hours ago, Zatman said: Suarez is far from world class now, hasnt produced in Europe in a long time. 8 goals in the Champions League in the last 4 seasons is woeful 11 goals in 17 matches in the league suggests to me that he is still world class for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightoffyour Posted May 19, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted May 19, 2020 (edited) Has anyone ever liked a band when they weren't very well known and then gone off them once they'd become a commercial success (possibly the music had become more mainstream to lead to/as a result of said success)? This is reminiscent of that. Edited May 19, 2020 by fightoffyour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiOgiwara Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 (edited) 13 hours ago, PaulC said: For me World class is just for those very special players like Messi, Ronaldo and Suarez. I wouldn't even call Aguero world class. I obviously get your point, but I've always thought of world class in the context you had to assemble a world 11 with all roles so to speak. Being world class ment you were in contention of a spot on that team. Messi yes. Ronaldo yes. Aguero no. Suarez maybe. Lewandowski yes. But this is obviously very subjective. Edited May 19, 2020 by KenjiOgiwara 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 I go with top 5 in that position in the world is Suarez a top 5 number 9 in the world? Maybe, depends more on how the role has changed and where you see certain players, Ronaldo for example is played in that role at Juve, I do think Suarezs movement off the ball is top class, very unselfish in that regard, there’s a lot of messi goals where you see Suarez pull a defender away creating space spinning that all the way back to grealish...he will never tick that world class box, not a knock on him but he plays in a role where there are a lot of big name flash players who excel, the 5th best RB in the world for example will not be a better footballer than than the 20th best attacking midfielder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted May 19, 2020 Moderator Share Posted May 19, 2020 9 hours ago, sir_gary_cahill said: 11 goals in 17 matches in the league suggests to me that he is still world class for me Ah, but would he world class if he'd scored them for Southampton? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: Ah, but would he world class if he'd scored them for Southampton? Do you think Danny Ings is world class? For me, he’s just a very good Premier League striker. Ings went to Liverpool and he couldn’t hack it there, mainly due to injury problems. It’s harder to score goals in a relegation threatened side, I think that Suárez would score goals in any side in world football, I think Suárez would be world class if he was scoring goals at Southampton because he has proven himself at top clubs already, whereas Ings hasn’t, do you think that Suárez would be world class if he’d score them for Southampton? Edited May 19, 2020 by sir_gary_cahill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted May 19, 2020 Moderator Share Posted May 19, 2020 5 minutes ago, sir_gary_cahill said: Do you think Danny Ings is world class? For me, he’s just a very good Premier League striker. Ings went to Liverpool and he couldn’t hack it there, mainly due to injury problems. It’s harder to score goals in a relegation threatened side, I think that Suárez would score goals in any side in world football, I think Suárez would be world class if he was scoring goals at Southampton because he has proven himself at top clubs already, whereas Ings hasn’t Okay, so a player that goes from a "big" team to a lower team can be world class - but a player that is already at a regular team can't be world class without going to a "big" team? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 7 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: Okay, so a player that goes from a "big" team to a lower team can be world class - but a player that is already at a regular team can't be world class without going to a "big" team? I just gave an example of a very good player I think (Ings) who seems to excel at mid table teams but when he goes to a top team, he didn’t perform as well, partly due to injury problems. By a regular team do you mean a mid table team? I’ll go back to my example of Ings, he hasn’t proven himself at a top team but it’s not too late for him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 5 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: Okay, so a player that goes from a "big" team to a lower team can be world class - but a player that is already at a regular team can't be world class without going to a "big" team? What about Adama Traore, because he's been at Barcelona, played one senior game (see below stats), if he continues his impressive performances and continues to get better at Wolves and imagine they never get a champions league spot, Wolves refuse to sell him and he never plays for Spain because Spain have so many good players and for some reason the Spanish Manager had a spat with Traore when he was at Barcelona so wont pick him. Can Traore in the future be classed as world class because he has played at Barcelona in his career? Or do you have to spend certain amount of time or played certain amount of games at a big club? if so what is the number of games? 20, 40, 60, 80, 100....or do you have to win something? I need some rules please 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted May 19, 2020 Moderator Share Posted May 19, 2020 SGC, I'd say that Dwight Yorke played his best football for Villa, then moved on to Man Utd and won more trophies. Following your logic, he wasn't world class when he was at his peak, but he became world class when he performed a tiny bit worse but in a different shirt - that's correct right? 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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