sir_gary_cahill Posted April 28, 2020 Share Posted April 28, 2020 8 minutes ago, AntrimBlack said: If we are to be successful, we do not want to `dumb down', ie. sell Grealish and buy lesser players. We need to raise our game and keep Grealish and buy players as good as him. I believe we have the owners to do this. Players that are as good as him (there are few) won’t want to come to us in a relegation scrap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted April 28, 2020 Share Posted April 28, 2020 3 minutes ago, sir_gary_cahill said: Players that are as good as him (there are few) won’t want to come to us in a relegation scrap So what do you propose? i personally disagree. If they had a choice of a top club then sure they’ll go to a top club but not every player has that choice. If we got one in, it’s shows a project and one or two more might jump aboard. Obviously then we aren’t fighting relegation. Players are realising that jumping straight to a big club might not be the wisest move...Haaland is a classic example. We go for talents that aren’t the finished article yet so big clubs might be a bit adverse for another season or two. We tried this with championship version but we need to step up a big level. Still think we need a bit of experience in the squad, so I know the owners don’t want to do this but just a couple of players might help, like we had with Terry. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted April 28, 2020 Share Posted April 28, 2020 47 minutes ago, nick76 said: So what do you propose? i personally disagree. If they had a choice of a top club then sure they’ll go to a top club but not every player has that choice. If we got one in, it’s shows a project and one or two more might jump aboard. Obviously then we aren’t fighting relegation. Players are realising that jumping straight to a big club might not be the wisest move...Haaland is a classic example. We go for talents that aren’t the finished article yet so big clubs might be a bit adverse for another season or two. We tried this with championship version but we need to step up a big level. Still think we need a bit of experience in the squad, so I know the owners don’t want to do this but just a couple of players might help, like we had with Terry. It seems to me that you are desperate for success and want it pretty much straight away, well I don’t think it works like that. It takes years to build a successful side. Personally, although we’re embroiled in a relegation battle, I am happy, it’s what I expected for this season. What were your expectations at the start of the season nick76? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted April 28, 2020 Share Posted April 28, 2020 1 hour ago, nick76 said: Still think we need a bit of experience in the squad, so I know the owners don’t want to do this but just a couple of players might help, like we had with Terry. We don't need experienced players we need good players. Age doesn't matter. Richardson and Joe Cole had tons of experience when they arrived. Didn't make us any better 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted April 28, 2020 Share Posted April 28, 2020 17 minutes ago, villalad21 said: We don't need experienced players we need good players. Age doesn't matter. Richardson and Joe Cole had tons of experience when they arrived. Didn't make us any better Agree and disagree The reality is we were always going to hit a ropey spell this season, the experienced players can see you over the hump Merely suggesting good players doesn't factor in the mental side of football and confidence, our midfield had some good players in it last time we were relegated, they couldn't rise above being utter dogshit 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted April 28, 2020 Share Posted April 28, 2020 27 minutes ago, sir_gary_cahill said: It seems to me that you are desperate for success and want it pretty much straight away, well I don’t think it works like that. It takes years to build a successful side. Personally, although we’re embroiled in a relegation battle, I am happy, it’s what I expected for this season. What were your expectations at the start of the season nick76? Once we had won at Wembley to get promotion, I really struggled to see how we would survive but as always I was hopeful. After the spend I was delighted, I would've preferred a couple of experienced players to compliment the projects we brought and another striker. Despite that I could not complain with the spend that the owners did and on paper there were some really good buys. Some have not panned out yet and some are struggling but given that I am still genuinely pleased. I still thought 17th would be a huge struggle to attain because we have mostly new players, most players had never played at this level or many games at this level. We had a coach that has never managed at this level and then the gulf in class between PL and Championship is huge. I think you will see from most of my posts I have consistently said when others have been negative that I was happy with the season so far. The reason is that we were 17th for so long and despite fans complaining about us and how we were conceding goals, and this and that player was soooo bad etc but I kept saying but we are still 17th. We are 19th now with a game in hand, we were struggling before lockdown and winning our game in hand seemed hard but you never know. Still, I think 17th this season would be a huge achievement. I know some will complain about where Sheff Utd are and how much we spent and complain about some of our buys. I dont care, for me 17th was always the target. I could see anywhere between 14th and 19th as I seriously dont see much difference between the teams at the bottom half of the table and maybe a little run would've got us further up. I thought we'd lose at least half our games, I hoped for 10 or 11 wins and then sneak half a dozen draws. As I've said a number of times in prior posts, our squad was bare after the close of last season with key players being loans going back to their parent clubs. I said it had to be quantity over quality in the summer and then based on what the owners keep saying they (if we survive) will buy quality over quantity this summer. It made sense, we couldnt go into the season with a light squad as we wouldve been in a worse position with any injuries but we couldnt buy quality with quantity because it wouldve doubled out our outlay. If we survive then add a couple of quality players then easily we can jump to closer to mid table to 8th. You look at prior seasons, teams around relegation are around 10 wins, but sneaking into top half of the table is 15 wins (8th, 9th, 10th last season). I can think of a couple of games this season, which a goal had gone in or we'd kept a silly goal out we could've had a win or two more and a couple of quality additions could make that difference. I'm not even talking Grealish standard but let's say Cahill with Mings at the back and then a striker as well of the same ilk. So adding a couple of additions in the summer will make a huge difference. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted April 28, 2020 Share Posted April 28, 2020 29 minutes ago, villa4europe said: Agree and disagree The reality is we were always going to hit a ropey spell this season, the experienced players can see you over the hump Merely suggesting good players doesn't factor in the mental side of football and confidence, our midfield had some good players in it last time we were relegated, they couldn't rise above being utter dogshit Even if we had Hutton, Whelan and Jedinak when they were 30 years old they wouldn't make us any better. Point being they were average players. McGinn and Grealish isn't what i would call experienced players yet, at least not at this level. They perform well because they are good, not because of age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted April 28, 2020 Share Posted April 28, 2020 50 minutes ago, villalad21 said: We don't need experienced players we need good players. Age doesn't matter. Richardson and Joe Cole had tons of experience when they arrived. Didn't make us any better When I mean experience, maybe I shouldve been more explicit. Sometimes in games we'd panicked, sometimes we need somebody to calm players down, or to spot weaknesses. Yes good players I agree but sometimes experience aids seeing the game better if they are good players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted April 28, 2020 Share Posted April 28, 2020 1 minute ago, nick76 said: When I mean experience, maybe I shouldve been more explicit. Sometimes in games we'd panicked, sometimes we need somebody to calm players down, or to spot weaknesses. Yes good players I agree but sometimes experience aids seeing the game better if they are good players. You mean we need players with good passing abilities? A 17 year old Fabregas would massively improve us in that area. Not because of age but because of ability Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted April 28, 2020 Share Posted April 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, villalad21 said: Even if we had Hutton, Whelan and Jedinak when they were 30 years old they wouldn't make us any better. Point being they were average players. McGinn and Grealish isn't what i would call experienced players yet, at least not at this level. They perform well because they are good, not because of age. They perform well but they still need to grow in the experience side to see games better. When to do things, when not, to help with the younger players during game time. It is a major plus which I dont think we have in outfield players. Grealish is a great talent but I dont think he is the captain we need at the moment. He should be just allowed to play and influence that way, we need a leader on the pitch and I dont see that yet. Andy Townsend wasnt the greatest player but a great captain. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted April 28, 2020 Share Posted April 28, 2020 3 minutes ago, villalad21 said: You mean we need players with good passing abilities? A 17 year old Fabregas would massively improve us in that area. Not because of age but because of ability I doubt 17 year old fabregas went on a 5 game losing streak, including some in games that you should have won and games that you've lost thanks to awful refs Its not as simple as ability Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted April 28, 2020 Share Posted April 28, 2020 1 minute ago, villalad21 said: You mean we need players with good passing abilities? A 17 year old Fabregas would massively improve us in that area. Not because of age but because of ability Yeah but we arent at that level are we. You also need players that arent just great ability but mentally good at seeing the game as a whole and that generally is your captain. Terry was great at that. Some players have ability and controlling games mentally but at our level you generally dont get those players in the peak of their career so generally they are at the tail end of their career. Yes not the Joe Cole's of this world but there are the Terry's of this world that could help us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted April 28, 2020 Share Posted April 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, villa4europe said: I doubt 17 year old fabregas went on a 5 game losing streak, including some in games that you should have won and games that you've lost thanks to awful refs Its not as simple as ability You seem to think that 1 player could change everything. Doesn't work like that. We concede loads and have poor passing because of the coaching and system. We invite pressure by the way we try to play and it causes mistakes. A 16 year old Fabregas would 100 % improve us but we would still be losing games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villan4Life Posted April 28, 2020 Share Posted April 28, 2020 (edited) Great gesture Jack!!! Edited April 28, 2020 by Villan4Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villaphan04 Posted April 28, 2020 Share Posted April 28, 2020 (edited) I poked around on a united forum, and it seems that some of them are convinced we are in a very bad financial place (with/without relegation) and that they could take advantage and sign him. One poster even said he would be surprised if he cost more than 20 mil. Edited April 28, 2020 by Villaphan04 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam2003 Posted April 28, 2020 Share Posted April 28, 2020 10 hours ago, villalad21 said: Even if we had Hutton, Whelan and Jedinak when they were 30 years old they wouldn't make us any better. Point being they were average players. McGinn and Grealish isn't what i would call experienced players yet, at least not at this level. They perform well because they are good, not because of age. When Jedinak was 30 (2014) he was statistically the best player in the PL for at least half a season and was popping in goals like this... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted April 28, 2020 Share Posted April 28, 2020 12 hours ago, villalad21 said: You really think he want to fight relegation all his career? We have a novice of a coach at this level and are likely to get relegated unless the league get's void. Get in a high profile coach and there may be a chance of keeping him. I agree we need a better coach and better players in order to keep him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted April 28, 2020 Share Posted April 28, 2020 12 hours ago, sir_gary_cahill said: Players that are as good as him (there are few) won’t want to come to us in a relegation scrap I love the guy, but there are plenty as good as him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 1 hour ago, AntrimBlack said: I love the guy, but there are plenty as good as him. In The Premier League? Like who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 2 hours ago, sir_gary_cahill said: In The Premier League? Like who? De Bruyne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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