dounavilla Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 11 hours ago, Kiwivillan said: The Premier League states the official definition is: "Subject to Rule T.7, a contract player, either by himself or by any person on his behalf, shall not either directly or indirectly make any such approach as is referred to in Rule T.5 without having obtained the prior written consent of his club." City fans believe personal terms agreed. Bollocks There is also this. The Premier League states the official definition is: "Subject to Rule T.8, a contract player, either by himself or by any person on his behalf, shall not either directly or indirectly join a souless team like Manchester City and as is referred to in Rule T.6 without having obtained an insanity diagnosis from an Aston Villa supporting doctor." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pez1974 Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 The references to Milner, Delph, Barry etc are fair on one level. But.. None of them were fans of this club. I'm not sure they were big fans of any particular club - not like Jack is. They all went on to win things - but none of them are loved by any club in the way Jack is here. They're all wealthy - like Jack is, and he will become more wealthy at Villa, enabling him to look after his family. In reality - does he want fans in 30 years still singing his name, and have the real chance of winning things here and putting him (maybe) on a tier above even the likes of Brian Little, Paul McGrath and Sid Cowans. Or does he want maybe a few more medals (and questionable contributions) and a bit more money, and the likelihood of ending his playing days at Everton and beyond. As a Villa fan - I know what I would like to look back on when I'm 70. After all - Stuart Taylor has 2x league winners medals, and an FA Cup medal. And no one gives a shit, and would laugh if he showed you them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderPower_14 Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, Pez1974 said: The references to Milner, Delph, Barry etc are fair on one level. But.. None of them were fans of this club. I'm not sure they were big fans of any particular club - not like Jack is. They all went on to win things - but none of them are loved by any club in the way Jack is here. They're all wealthy - like Jack is, and he will become more wealthy at Villa, enabling him to look after his family. In reality - does he want fans in 30 years still singing his name, and have the real chance of winning things here and putting him (maybe) on a tier above even the likes of Brian Little, Paul McGrath and Sid Cowans. Or does he want maybe a few more medals (and questionable contributions) and a bit more money, and the likelihood of ending his playing days at Everton and beyond. As a Villa fan - I know what I would like to look back on when I'm 70. After all - Stuart Taylor has 2x league winners medals, and an FA Cup medal. And no one gives a shit, and would laugh if he showed you them. Exactly. Looking back on your career, would you rather be Francesco Totti or James Milner? Absolutely no offence to Milner here, I specifically used a popular, widely successful player as a comparison. That sort of complete and total adoration by your home club's fans is available to so few players and once you move, it's hard to get back. Jack will have a statue outside Villa Park one day if he stays. If he leaves, he's more likely to win the League and the Champions League. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedClaretAndBlue Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 Joining “already established success” isnt ambitious either when you think about it. Man City are dominating this country with ease and will probably continue to with or without Jack. Jumping onto an already winning train is an easy option. I can see why Kane wants to given his age. Cant see it myself but this is interesting on role model Kane: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaJ100 Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 Yeah in the event of any sales I wouldn't want a player plus money. Invariably the swapped player never really wants to come 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 26 minutes ago, Rds1983 said: This is what I've always thought odd about the Delph situation. He could have left on a free and we'd have got nothing for him. Instead, he signed an extension and we got £8m. In a weird way he actually helped us out. From that point it was well managed by the club as he was never going to sign without a release clause. All the PR stuff and the kit advertising was a monumental mistake by all parties. This isn't me defending him as I don't like him, just saying we might have had nothing for him and he'd likely have had a larger signing fee/wage. I agree with that. We got £8m instead of nothing. The management of his contract up to then is an entirely different matter. I think the problem we all had with Delph was his big loyal, honourable man speech he made on signing the contract. If his intention was always to leave why would he make such a declaration? We were a very badly run club at the time on a downward spiral. It was hard, once you take the emotion away, to blame any player for wanting to move at that time. Delph’s additional interaction with Stirling and the toy snakes video on a plane only confirmed that he always was a complete Representative for Wellingborough. The comparison to how James Milner conducted himself is very stark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 11 minutes ago, VillaJ100 said: Yeah in the event of any sales I wouldn't want a player plus money. Invariably the swapped player never really wants to come Stephen Ireland taught us a lesson on that score - and I thought he’d be great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rds1983 Posted July 17, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted July 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said: I agree with that. We got £8m instead of nothing. The management of his contract up to then is an entirely different matter. I think the problem we all had with Delph was his big loyal, honourable man speech he made on signing the contract. If his intention was always to leave why would he make such a declaration? We were a very badly run club at the time on a downward spiral. It was hard, once you take the emotion away, to blame any player for wanting to move at that time. Delph’s additional interaction with Stirling and the toy snakes video on a plane only confirmed that he always was a complete Representative for Wellingborough. The comparison to how James Milner conducted himself is very stark. Agree with all that. Shouldn't have let his contract run down like it did. As I said the marketing /PR bit was awful looking back. Milner seems a lot nicer bloke and has had a better career. I'd also be happy for him to come back. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheltenham_villa Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 35 minutes ago, Pez1974 said: The references to Milner, Delph, Barry etc are fair on one level. But.. None of them were fans of this club. I'm not sure they were big fans of any particular club - not like Jack is. They all went on to win things - but none of them are loved by any club in the way Jack is here. They're all wealthy - like Jack is, and he will become more wealthy at Villa, enabling him to look after his family. In reality - does he want fans in 30 years still singing his name, and have the real chance of winning things here and putting him (maybe) on a tier above even the likes of Brian Little, Paul McGrath and Sid Cowans. Or does he want maybe a few more medals (and questionable contributions) and a bit more money, and the likelihood of ending his playing days at Everton and beyond. As a Villa fan - I know what I would like to look back on when I'm 70. After all - Stuart Taylor has 2x league winners medals, and an FA Cup medal. And no one gives a shit, and would laugh if he showed you them. Do people laugh at John Terry's medals? If Jack left, I suspect he would be going for a British record transfer and would go on to play a role of more significance than a sub keeper. I think we all know Jack would love to stay, at the same time we all know he has aspirations to achieve big things. Question is whether he thinks.he can achieve them with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 (edited) 35 minutes ago, ThunderPower_14 said: Exactly. Looking back on your career, would you rather be Francesco Totti or James Milner? Absolutely no offence to Milner here, I specifically used a popular, widely successful player as a comparison. That sort of complete and total adoration by your home club's fans is available to so few players and once you move, it's hard to get back. Jack will have a statue outside Villa Park one day if he stays. If he leaves, he's more likely to win the League and the Champions League. Yeah I’ve been thinking of this recently and more so with the Totti documentary and series that have been released… It’s rare to become such a symbol and genuine legend, especially nowadays, it’s almost a unique thing. To earn the admiration, adoration and respect of so many and be so closely linked to a club… it’s quite historic and won’t be forgotten. What a story and career to look back on… It holds massive appeal and Jack needs to reflect on that… What a shame for any player to taint or destroy that… players like Totti, Maldini, Gerrard (came close didn’t he?) wouldn’t have retained or achieved that had they moved away… I don’t consider leaving toward the end of your career or winding down an issue, such as joining an MLS or lower league team etc. But leaving in your prime or best years…that’s a shame… Jack can and has a lot to achieve with us… wouldn’t really make sense for him to leave at this point, at least imo, when we are on the verge of genuinely achieving great things… starting with getting into Europe… Edited July 17, 2021 by Jas10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaJ100 Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 4 minutes ago, cheltenham_villa said: Do people laugh at John Terry's medals? If Jack left, I suspect he would be going for a British record transfer and would go on to play a role of more significance than a sub keeper. I think we all know Jack would love to stay, at the same time we all know he has aspirations to achieve big things. Question is whether he thinks.he can achieve them with us. I think this is a big season for us. We need to get minimum top 8 or a cup win. Will we do that? If the players improve the same amount this season as last and with the new recruits then we have a chance. We need more players though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 16 minutes ago, BleedClaretAndBlue said: Joining “already established success” isnt ambitious either when you think about it. Man City are dominating this country with ease and will probably continue to with or without Jack. Jumping onto an already winning train is an easy option. I can see why Kane wants to given his age. Cant see it myself but this is interesting on role model Kane: This is probably crazy talk but I wonder how much Kane (or Jack) would enjoy Pep’s more regimented system? Yes they’ll win a domestic trophy or two by playing a very specific role, but as players who like getting about the pitch and being involved their actual enjoyment of the game might drop. Even with that, City have no guarantee of winning the UCL anyway. Jack’s best shot at European silverware might be the UEFA Cup with us and I’d hope that’s the club’s ‘inshallah’ target for the ‘22-23 season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 I personally think what matters is the direction of travel. If we start to plateau now, and can’t break into the top 4, then what’s on offer for Jack isn’t Totti status - it’s more like Matt le Tissier or even Gabby Agbonlahor. If we keep improving year on year, then he has that opportunity to get Totti / Gerrard status and be a club legend with a bit of silverware to his name (and loads of £££), and I think that will be attractive to him. For that reason, I think he’s staying, because the project is working and he believes in the project. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedClaretAndBlue Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catanzaro Posted July 17, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted July 17, 2021 8 minutes ago, Jas10 said: Yeah I’ve been thinking of this recently and more so with the Totti documentary and series that have been released… It’s rare to become such a symbol and genuine legend, especially nowadays, it’s almost a unique thing. To earn the admiration, adoration and respect of so many and be so closely linked to a club… it’s quite historic and won’t be forgotten. What a story and career to look back on… It holds massive appeal and Jack needs to reflect on that… I hope he’s watched the Totti documentary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 1 minute ago, catanzaro said: I hope he’s watched the Totti documentary Me too… The series wasn’t bad either, great final episode… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recircle Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 12 minutes ago, cheltenham_villa said: Do people laugh at John Terry's medals? A person laughing at anyone's medals tells you more about the person laughing than the person with the medals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 3 hours ago, DaveAV1 said: People keep referring to things that have happened in the past, Milner, Delph etc. But this isn’t the past, Aston Villa are a completely different club now. We are an ambitious, extremely well run club backed by huge wealth. The fact that NSWE bring so much more to the table than their wealth though is the significant factor here. Until the Xia fiasco we’ve never really been badly financed since the late 60s. Deadly kept us tight for money but back then we weren’t ever skint, he just never went the extra mile. Deadly lacked the massive finance that has come into the game in recent years, he had many faults but wasn’t a total idiot. I’ll skip over the Bendals. Lerner had enough wealth to make a difference. Ok the Russian and the Arabs could blow him away but shear wealth wasn’t the issue. His inherited wealth allowed him to buy an expensive toy but that was about as far as his real interest went. I wouldn’t say he didn’t care, initially anyway, and he did put his money on the table but essentially he couldn’t be bothered to go to the trouble to set up the club properly. He is on record as saying that basically every thing should be left up to MON. I think his words were along the lines, “You don’t interfere with these top guys”. Graham Taylor set up a meeting with him soon after his arrival but he he sent a minion along instead. Big mistake. His other, possibly bigger mistake was letting Steve Stride go. Stride had virtually run the club for Doug for years. What he didn’t know wasn’t worth knowing about the club. Lerner appointed various CEOs none of whom had a clue about football and once his wealth was essentially cut in half by his divorce, even his passing interest more or less disappeared altogether. His final and utterly disastrous act was to allow a charlatan like Xia to gain control. He just wanted out and didn’t care how or about the consequences. Xia was a chancer, the last type you need to meet when you’re in trouble. The club was in trouble and it was getting deeper by the day. Could any of us imagine a man like Keith Wyness working for NSWE? The plan was always do anything to get promoted back to the PL, grab the money and run. The best thing that happened to Aston Villa in this whole terrible and tragic affair was to lose the play off final against Fulham. The long term damage done to us with Xia spending PL money doesn’t bare thinking about. Even if NSWE had come in at a later date, which I doubt, we would at best be put back years and years and at worst finished completely as a viable PL club, if we still existed at all. It’s the sports business intelligence that NSWE have brought to us that gives me such confidence that Jack and other stars in the future will no longer be cherry picked from us. Any future sales will be very much on our terms. We are no longer the rabbit frozen in the headlights. We’re big, strong and clever, nobody bullies or takes Aston Villa for a ride anymore. Well said Dave....that final was a blessing in disguise, it flushed him out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 6 hours ago, thunderball said: I pray this doesn’t happen. If it does we are back to uncomfortable bottom half again. Not so fast. If Jack is sold, we'll likely get around 100m. That buys us 2 or 3 really good players. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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