tom_avfc Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 12 hours ago, KentVillan said: Yeah the point is the foot movement from Bairstow is to indicate to the fielders he’s inside his crease and not considering a run. He’s (wrongly) assuming they get the message and just lob the ball back, and carry on. The idea of a stumping is you’re catching out a player who has left his crease to obtain some kind of advantage to hit the ball, or lost balance trying to hit the ball. Dumb from Bairstow in the situation… it was of course out, and the umpires had no option. But can completely understand the rage, and think Cummins could have withdrawn the appeal. Hopefully it will motivate England in the next test, where I think Australia will miss Lyon. Stokes seems to be fired up now. I’m not sure it is dumb from Bairstow. I reckon there’s be hundreds of examples from that one test match of the ball carrying through to the keeper and then the batsman pretty quickly wandering down the wicket for a chat and a prod at the ground. It happens in every match. Notice how ridiculous it looked when Broad was exaggerating holding his bat in at the end of the over. That’s because it’s never normally necessary to do that. It becomes a pretty petty game if the wicket keepers decide they’re just going to throw down the stumps every ball on the off chance that a batsman has moved slightly to soon between balls. If he’s stealing yards looking for a run then it’s fair game and a bit stupid from Bairstow. As it is Bairstow isn’t trying to seek any advantage and it’s a ridiculous wicket to claim and celebrate in the way that Australia did. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted July 3, 2023 Moderator Share Posted July 3, 2023 It's brilliant that we don't have a gap this week and that they're straight back into it on Thursday. It's a very good series, it now has villains and it's going to a really lively venue - it's going to be fantastic at the end of this week. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachboys1 Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 10 minutes ago, PaulC said: Anyway the Yorkshire crowd don't take any prisoners. The Aussies are going to get some real stick at Headingly. plus there might bes ome rascism at khwaja especialy with him getting involed in long room 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 43 minutes ago, tom_avfc said: I’m not sure it is dumb from Bairstow. I reckon there’s be hundreds of examples from that one test match of the ball carrying through to the keeper and then the batsman pretty quickly wandering down the wicket for a chat and a prod at the ground. It happens in every match. Notice how ridiculous it looked when Broad was exaggerating holding his bat in at the end of the over. That’s because it’s never normally necessary to do that. It becomes a pretty petty game if the wicket keepers decide they’re just going to throw down the stumps every ball on the off chance that a batsman has moved slightly to soon between balls. If he’s stealing yards looking for a run then it’s fair game and a bit stupid from Bairstow. As it is Bairstow isn’t trying to seek any advantage and it’s a ridiculous wicket to claim and celebrate in the way that Australia did. Exactly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, beachboys1 said: plus there might bes ome rascism at khwaja especialy with him getting involed in long room Hopefully it's targeted at Cummings and Carey and there's no racism towards Khwaja. Edited July 3, 2023 by PaulC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderPower_14 Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 2 hours ago, tom_avfc said: I’m not sure it is dumb from Bairstow. I reckon there’s be hundreds of examples from that one test match of the ball carrying through to the keeper and then the batsman pretty quickly wandering down the wicket for a chat and a prod at the ground. It happens in every match. Notice how ridiculous it looked when Broad was exaggerating holding his bat in at the end of the over. That’s because it’s never normally necessary to do that. It becomes a pretty petty game if the wicket keepers decide they’re just going to throw down the stumps every ball on the off chance that a batsman has moved slightly to soon between balls. If he’s stealing yards looking for a run then it’s fair game and a bit stupid from Bairstow. As it is Bairstow isn’t trying to seek any advantage and it’s a ridiculous wicket to claim and celebrate in the way that Australia did. Batsmen don't need to ask their opponents if the ball is dead because they look at where the ball is and it's obvious. Bairstow didn't bother to look. It's unquestionably dead if the keeper has moved it on. If the keeper is still holding it, stay in your crease. Again, Bairstow didn't check. It's not like Carey tried to disguise what he was doing at all. Runout attempts on complacent batsmen are attempted all the time in all kinds of scenarios. It's always necessary to make sure you're safe in your crease, it might just not seem that way because every cricketer does it automatically and these situations are rare. You're getting taught to stay in your crease from the earliest levels of cricket. I played for 25 years, I saw lots of people in that time get out because they were complacent about whether they were in their crease or not. Wicketkeepers attempt stumpings on batsmen who are complacently adjusting their feet all the time. McCullum famously did the exact same thing to Paul Collingwood, making his sooking particularly egregious. Bairstow tried to catch Labuschagne napping 2 days earlier. The idea that this is sly or underhanded or abnormal is silly. This whole circus has become wildly overblown because it's the Ashes and England are looking for someone to blame. No different to Stuart Broad having been a pantomime villain in Australia for the last decade because we wasted all of our challenges and then he smashed it to slip and didn't walk. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderPower_14 Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 3 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: It's brilliant that we don't have a gap this week and that they're straight back into it on Thursday. It's a very good series, it now has villains and it's going to a really lively venue - it's going to be fantastic at the end of this week. Agree, Ashes series are always good but this one is particularly good. Both games have been seesawing, right down to the wire affairs and there's a lot of feeling in it. While i'm not a huge fan as a spectator of this new strategy of bouncing out opponents instead of pitching it up, this is as good as cricket gets as a contest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewiek2 Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post OutByEaster? Posted July 3, 2023 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted July 3, 2023 1 hour ago, ThunderPower_14 said: Batsmen don't need to ask their opponents if the ball is dead because they look at where the ball is and it's obvious. Bairstow didn't bother to look. It's unquestionably dead if the keeper has moved it on. If the keeper is still holding it, stay in your crease. Again, Bairstow didn't check. It's not like Carey tried to disguise what he was doing at all. Runout attempts on complacent batsmen are attempted all the time in all kinds of scenarios. It's always necessary to make sure you're safe in your crease, it might just not seem that way because every cricketer does it automatically and these situations are rare. I think from Bairstow's perspective, he knows the ball is gone, he's had time to regather himself, then he's gone through the action of running his foot along his crease to demonstrate that he's in it - at that point, mentally from a batsman's point of view, there's a lot of time elapsed - and he's watching an umpire going through the routine he goes through after an over - unhitching a cap, detached from play, no longer observing what's happening - at that point I think it's perfectly sensible for him to assume we're no longer live. The whole incident doesn't feel like part of the ball that was bowled, it feels like something that happened afterwards, separately - and that's because to all practical concerns it was - within the rules it's understandable that we're still considered live, but from a practical standpoint it's hard to justify. It's not part of the sporting contest, it's not the field versus the batsmen in a contest of skill, they haven't got him out by being clever in a cricket sense, they've taken advantage of an umpire electing to do his end of over routines before calling over - Bairstow wasn't seeking to gain an advantage in any way - it's hitting a man on the break, it's really poor and despite the protests of those around the Australia team, it's clearly and obviously unsporting in a game that still maintains some semblance of honour. I'm not putting this one on Bairstow - it's scumbag cricket. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 I've always thought of Bairstow as a 'walker' too and a bit of a weird target for cheating like this. Most wicket keepers are walkers from what I've seen, going back to Gilchrist's days. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imavillan Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 3 hours ago, ThunderPower_14 said: Batsmen don't need to ask their opponents if the ball is dead because they look at where the ball is and it's obvious. Bairstow didn't bother to look. It's unquestionably dead if the keeper has moved it on. If the keeper is still holding it, stay in your crease. Again, Bairstow didn't check. It's not like Carey tried to disguise what he was doing at all. Runout attempts on complacent batsmen are attempted all the time in all kinds of scenarios. It's always necessary to make sure you're safe in your crease, it might just not seem that way because every cricketer does it automatically and these situations are rare. You're getting taught to stay in your crease from the earliest levels of cricket. I played for 25 years, I saw lots of people in that time get out because they were complacent about whether they were in their crease or not. Wicketkeepers attempt stumpings on batsmen who are complacently adjusting their feet all the time. McCullum famously did the exact same thing to Paul Collingwood, making his sooking particularly egregious. Bairstow tried to catch Labuschagne napping 2 days earlier. The idea that this is sly or underhanded or abnormal is silly. This whole circus has become wildly overblown because it's the Ashes and England are looking for someone to blame. No different to Stuart Broad having been a pantomime villain in Australia for the last decade because we wasted all of our challenges and then he smashed it to slip and didn't walk. this is the best post on the issue and sums it up to a t.... just to add, Bairstow did not look round to see where there ball was, he assumed it was dead and it was reckless from him The ball went to Carey who through it back instantly back at the stumps I think we are being rather salty and covering up our own misdoings and while a lot of the Nation are against it, Australia (as you would expect) have a different view of it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 Well it’s put some fire into this Ashes as if it wasn’t there already. Thursday will be rocking, Headingly is the second best atmosphere in cricket (after Edgbaston of course) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 2 hours ago, stewiek2 said: Ed Sheeran is very protective of his songs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 The Bairstow to Marnus one isn’t even remotely similar it’s mid over, and he’s batting outside of his crease to gain an advantage what advantage is Bairstow getting tapping his bat at the end of the over and walking to his batting partner? ridiculous false equivalence to explain away appalling sportsmanship. we’ll have people in the thread defending mankad’s next. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolteExile Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 2 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: I think from Bairstow's perspective, he knows the ball is gone, he's had time to regather himself, then he's gone through the action of running his foot along his crease to demonstrate that he's in it - at that point, mentally from a batsman's point of view, there's a lot of time elapsed - and he's watching an umpire going through the routine he goes through after an over - unhitching a cap, detached from play, no longer observing what's happening - at that point I think it's perfectly sensible for him to assume we're no longer live. The whole incident doesn't feel like part of the ball that was bowled, it feels like something that happened afterwards, separately - and that's because to all practical concerns it was - within the rules it's understandable that we're still considered live, but from a practical standpoint it's hard to justify. It's not part of the sporting contest, it's not the field versus the batsmen in a contest of skill, they haven't got him out by being clever in a cricket sense, they've taken advantage of an umpire electing to do his end of over routines before calling over - Bairstow wasn't seeking to gain an advantage in any way - it's hitting a man on the break, it's really poor and despite the protests of those around the Australia team, it's clearly and obviously unsporting in a game that still maintains some semblance of honour. I'm not putting this one on Bairstow - it's scumbag cricket. Agreed. There may have been some naivety about Australia's change of midset post sandpaper scandal and all the rest of it. But they've shown time and again they are the cricket equivalent of Argentina. The 'spirit of cricket' thing only really works if you're playing against India, NZ, West Indies or whoever and there's a shared set of values. It falls down when you are up against pick pockets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imavillan Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 14 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: The Bairstow to Marnus one isn’t even remotely similar it’s mid over, and he’s batting outside of his crease to gain an advantage what advantage is Bairstow getting tapping his bat at the end of the over and walking to his batting partner? ridiculous false equivalence to explain away appalling sportsmanship. we’ll have people in the thread defending mankad’s next. he didn't tap his bat I've watched this umpteen times and still see nothing wrong with what Carey did. https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/cricket/12913413/the-most-controversial-moment-of-the-ashes-so-far-alex-carey-stumps-jonny-bairstow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, imavillan said: he didn't tap his bat I've watched this umpteen times and still see nothing wrong with what Carey did. It's just poor sportsmanship. I don't get how it's this hard to understand. He throws the ball with Bairstow in his crease, marking with his foot. He knows he'll walk down the wicket to talk to his partner. It's the end of the over. Bairstow is gaining zero advantage. Carey is taking a cheap shot. Nothing wrong with it, perfectly within the rules, but poor sportsmanship. Edit: Cam Green's reaction sort of sums it up. Not sure I should appeal, or celebrate... something feels wrong. Edited July 3, 2023 by bobzy 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imavillan Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 2 minutes ago, bobzy said: It's just poor sportsmanship. I don't get how it's this hard to understand. He throws the ball with Bairstow in his crease, marking with his foot. He knows he'll walk down the wicket to talk to his partner. It's the end of the over. Bairstow is gaining zero advantage. Carey is taking a cheap shot. Nothing wrong with it, perfectly within the rules, but poor sportsmanship. Edit: Cam Green's reaction sort of sums it up. Not sure I should appeal, or celebrate... something feels wrong. have to agree to disagree nobody was lambasting Bairstow when he did it the day before, i guess because he didn't get the wicket but even if he had the majority of England fans would have been saying that's clever play. Stokes and all would also be saying a different thing. All seems very salty to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 4 minutes ago, imavillan said: have to agree to disagree nobody was lambasting Bairstow when he did it the day before, i guess because he didn't get the wicket but even if he had the majority of England fans would have been saying that's clever play. Stokes and all would also be saying a different thing. All seems very salty to me Yes nobody was lambasting Bairstow because what he did was not remotely similar to what Carey did. Marnus is batting out of his crease to gain an advantage. He needs to get back in. Bairstow is going for a chat at the end of the over, like every batsman in every form of cricket does everywhere. As many have said, the umpire is unclipping green’s hat whilst it’s happening. In every way but the word ‘over’ it’s the end of the over. it’s appalling and embarrassing any are justifying it. Aussies or not. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 21 minutes ago, imavillan said: have to agree to disagree nobody was lambasting Bairstow when he did it the day before, i guess because he didn't get the wicket but even if he had the majority of England fans would have been saying that's clever play. Stokes and all would also be saying a different thing. All seems very salty to me Nobody was lambasting something that didn't occur. That's a good one 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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