snowychap Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 7 hours ago, imavillan said: put a lot of thought into that response The level required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 Could they bring Foakes in as WK to replace Pope and push everyone else one place up the order? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 36 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: Could they bring Foakes in as WK to replace Pope and push everyone else one place up the order? I'd have more confidence in that than having Lawrence at 3 but Root won't want to bat there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 2 hours ago, sharkyvilla said: I'd have more confidence in that than having Lawrence at 3 but Root won't want to bat there. He’s done it before so should be able to cope with it, although an angry Bairstow behind the stumps could be interesting for the rest of the series too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 Travis Head said Bairstow told him that he would have done similar to Carey at Edgbaston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 6 hours ago, bannedfromHandV said: Could they bring Foakes in as WK to replace Pope and push everyone else one place up the order? I think they have said they are not changing the squad from the first two tests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eidolon Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 (edited) 8 hours ago, PaulC said: Not saying that's cheating but the sandpapergate scandal back in 2019. There's no integrity in this current Aussie team. I thought we were done with Whataboutery? fwiw the players involved in sandpaper gate were disciplined incredibly harshly (well above and beyond ICC requirements) by our own cricket board and served their time. Something that hasn’t really been seen any other time a team has been caught out ball tampering *cough* 2005 *cough* These are professional sportsmen who’s livelihoods depend on winning games of cricket. If you don’t think everyone on that oval would do anything they could to get an edge (once again WITHIN the legal limits of the game) then I have a bridge in Sydney to sell you. it’s sore loser-ism plain and simple Edited July 4, 2023 by Eidolon 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 Australia are really in for it tomorrow. A stadium full of angry and aggrieved dirty Leeds fans bellowing at them. Can't think of anything worse. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjw63 Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 17 minutes ago, Wainy316 said: Australia are really in for it tomorrow. A stadium full of angry and aggrieved dirty Leeds fans bellowing at them. Can't think of anything better. Fixed 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Wainy316 said: Australia are really in for it tomorrow. A stadium full of angry and aggrieved dirty Leeds fans bellowing at them. Can't think of anything worse. People really overblow what affect the atmosphere has, especially in cricket. The toss and the overhead conditions matter 1000 times more. I doubt Australia will be affected by a few drunk Leeds fans yelling convict at them. Edited July 5, 2023 by villa89 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 9 hours ago, Eidolon said: I thought we were done with Whataboutery? fwiw the players involved in sandpaper gate were disciplined incredibly harshly (well above and beyond ICC requirements) by our own cricket board and served their time. Something that hasn’t really been seen any other time a team has been caught out ball tampering *cough* 2005 *cough* These are professional sportsmen who’s livelihoods depend on winning games of cricket. If you don’t think everyone on that oval would do anything they could to get an edge (once again WITHIN the legal limits of the game) then I have a bridge in Sydney to sell you. it’s sore loser-ism plain and simple Yeah okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightoffyour Posted July 5, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted July 5, 2023 (edited) 10 hours ago, Eidolon said: I thought we were done with Whataboutery? Where's the whataboutery here? 19 hours ago, PaulC said: Not saying that's cheating but the sandpapergate scandal back in 2019. There's no integrity in this current Aussie team. He just said this Aussie team has a history of actually cheating. That's factual. Edited July 5, 2023 by fightoffyour 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 10 hours ago, Eidolon said: I thought we were done with Whataboutery? fwiw the players involved in sandpaper gate were disciplined incredibly harshly (well above and beyond ICC requirements) by our own cricket board and served their time. Something that hasn’t really been seen any other time a team has been caught out ball tampering *cough* 2005 *cough* These are professional sportsmen who’s livelihoods depend on winning games of cricket. If you don’t think everyone on that oval would do anything they could to get an edge (once again WITHIN the legal limits of the game) then I have a bridge in Sydney to sell you. it’s sore loser-ism plain and simple Sorry but roughing up one side of a ball with sandpaper is blatant cheating and they were lucky to be allowed to play test cricket again. Its not sore losing mentality. I just believe in the old tradition of playing hard but fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 49 minutes ago, PaulC said: Sorry but roughing up one side of a ball with sandpaper is blatant cheating and they were lucky to be allowed to play test cricket again. Its not sore losing mentality. I just believe in the old tradition of playing hard but fair. Roughing up the ball is one of the traditions of the game. Where do you think reverse swing comes from? Ball tampering is as old as the game itself, the difference now is that there are cameras that can catch you in the act, in the past it was a free for all. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightoffyour Posted July 5, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted July 5, 2023 1 hour ago, villa89 said: Roughing up the ball is one of the traditions of the game. Where do you think reverse swing comes from? Ball tampering is as old as the game itself, the difference now is that there are cameras that can catch you in the act, in the past it was a free for all. It's written in the rules that you can legally polish or rough up the ball without an artificial substance. That's not ball tampering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eidolon Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 1 hour ago, PaulC said: Sorry but roughing up one side of a ball with sandpaper is blatant cheating and they were lucky to be allowed to play test cricket again. Its not sore losing mentality. I just believe in the old tradition of playing hard but fair. So legally stumping a batsman who wandered out of his crease with the ball in play is cheating and against the spirit of cricket but using mints to alter the condition of the ball illegally for years (as your own players have copped to) is hard but fair? sure thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightoffyour Posted July 5, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted July 5, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Eidolon said: So legally stumping a batsman who wandered out of his crease with the ball in play is cheating and against the spirit of cricket but using mints to alter the condition of the ball illegally for years (as your own players have copped to) is hard but fair? sure thing He didn't say the stumping was cheating, he said this Aussie team has previously cheated. And you're referring to an England team of around 20 years ago, not the current team, nor did @PaulC condone those actions. [As an aside, spit is legal (or was until Covid?), so this is presumably somewhat of a grey area - or rather, difficult to apply. I'd imagine some players chew gum, like that damn Mings.] Anyway, three changes for England: Woakes, Wood, and Ali in for Pope, Tongue, and Anderson. Edited July 5, 2023 by fightoffyour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mottaloo Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, villa89 said: Roughing up the ball is one of the traditions of the game. Where do you think reverse swing comes from? Ball tampering is as old as the game itself, the difference now is that there are cameras that can catch you in the act, in the past it was a free for all. Exactly. Be it a pocket of dirt in Atherton's pocket; rubbing the saliva from a bowler who'd been sucking on a boiled sweet on the ball; bowlers getting extra shine on a ball from rubbing it on the thigh of the trouser that had been heavily sprayed with deodorant just before they came on to the pitch; digging fingernails into the ball to scratch up more roughness; sandpaper....and so on...I've played in teams who've done all that and more. It happens, by both sides. Edited July 5, 2023 by mottaloo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 2 hours ago, Eidolon said: So legally stumping a batsman who wandered out of his crease with the ball in play is cheating and against the spirit of cricket but using mints to alter the condition of the ball illegally for years (as your own players have copped to) is hard but fair? sure thing You're struggling with it. I'll go for the break down: Australia didn't cheat at Lords Some of the Australian squad currently partaking in the Ashes are known cheats. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 Anyway team announced. Wood, woakes and moeen all in for Pope. Anderson and Tongue. Looks a better balanced attack and a bit more depth to the batting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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