The "Witton Lane" Boxing Chat Thread

[avfc1982am]

11 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

The problem is what gets you respect and kudos isn't always what's good for your bank balance, and it's a dangerous profession. Some fighters managed to have long, lucrative careers without getting too beat up. AJ has made a lot of money out of boxing, and has largely avoided getting serious brain damage (last night's behaviour notwithstanding...).

What the fans want, and what a sensible friend or family member would advise you to do are probably quite different.

It's noticeable that the cautious outside fighters who ducked a lot of fights have still made a lot of money and don't seem too washed up... people like Lennox Lewis, both Klitschkos, Calzaghe, etc. A lot of the really brave guys who've been in the wars have ended up as a shadow of their former selves.

As good as Usyk is, he's not a guy who's going to hospitalise people.

Fury made his name getting up from a massive knockout punch.

Quite right in that what get you kudos isn't always good for you. 

As for your cautious fighter call outs.....Lewis had more than enough battles to ever be classed as cautious, similar to Calzaghe who was a boxer puncher and did most of his best work inside and was far from cautious as he was a pressure fighter. Where all three excelled was through defence. Lewis and Klitschko had range and fought well at distance and Calzaghe had great movement and distance control. They utilised their strengths just as Mayweather and other great defensive fighters have,  using movement, timing and speed and ring craft. AJ doesn't and never will have those qualities and at 30 years old which is relatively young for a heavyweight it's going to get more and more difficult for him to escape damage. 

It's funny you mentioned Calzaghe though because Usyk is probably one of the closest fighters style wise to Calzaghe. Fighters like that don't need to hospitalise you. They'll just take pieces of you bit by bit, round by round until your soul is open and bare, and then they'll take that too.  

[KentVillan]

42 minutes ago, avfc1982am said:

Quite right in that what get you kudos isn't always good for you. 

As for your cautious fighter call outs.....Lewis had more than enough battles to ever be classed as cautious, similar to Calzaghe who was a boxer puncher and did most of his best work inside and was far from cautious as he was a pressure fighter. Where all three excelled was through defence. Lewis and Klitschko had range and fought well at distance and Calzaghe had great movement and distance control. They utilised their strengths just as Mayweather and other great defensive fighters have,  using movement, timing and speed and ring craft. AJ doesn't and never will have those qualities and at 30 years old which is relatively young for a heavyweight it's going to get more and more difficult for him to escape damage. 

It's funny you mentioned Calzaghe though because Usyk is probably one of the closest fighters style wise to Calzaghe. Fighters like that don't need to hospitalise you. They'll just take pieces of you bit by bit, round by round until your soul is open and bare, and then they'll take that too.  

Great post, but Lewis wisely avoided Tyson in his prime, who was ending careers, and timed his fights with McCall and Holyfield well, *and* retired at about the right time. And Calzaghe yes I guess he was an all rounder who could come inside, but he never really got into a slug fest with anyone.

Wasn’t meant to be a criticism of either fighter, just think they looked after themselves well, and managed their careers well vs some of the “I’ll fight any man any day” types who took some real damage.

Calzaghe would have had a more celebrated career outside the UK if he’d just fought some of those big US names slightly earlier. His best fights will always be Kessler, Lacy and Eubank… not sure anyone will really take those Hopkins and RJJ fights as seriously as they would have been a few years earlier.

The more I think about AJ’s comments last night, the more sympathetic I am to him tbh. You learn any sport in later life and you never quite pick up the natural movement and technique. It must have been a nightmare for him trying to line up a more naturally gifted southpaw with better stamina than him. Fair play to him for trying to come up with a new plan. The Usyk/Calzaghe comparison is a good one. That combination of unorthodox style, hand speed, unbelievable stamina and a granite chin.

[avfc1982am]

45 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

Great post, but Lewis wisely avoided Tyson in his prime, who was ending careers, and timed his fights with McCall and Holyfield well, *and* retired at about the right time. And Calzaghe yes I guess he was an all rounder who could come inside, but he never really got into a slug fest with anyone.

Wasn’t meant to be a criticism of either fighter, just think they looked after themselves well, and managed their careers well vs some of the “I’ll fight any man any day” types who took some real damage.

Calzaghe would have had a more celebrated career outside the UK if he’d just fought some of those big US names slightly earlier. His best fights will always be Kessler, Lacy and Eubank… not sure anyone will really take those Hopkins and RJJ fights as seriously as they would have been a few years earlier.

The more I think about AJ’s comments last night, the more sympathetic I am to him tbh. You learn any sport in later life and you never quite pick up the natural movement and technique. It must have been a nightmare for him trying to line up a more naturally gifted southpaw with better stamina than him. Fair play to him for trying to come up with a new plan. The Usyk/Calzaghe comparison is a good one. That combination of unorthodox style, hand speed, unbelievable stamina and a granite chin.

Equally a great post and you also make some good points. Especially about them taking better care of themselves. I think there is a another element to this though. Under British promoters in the 80's and 90's although less so the 90's eg, Warren especially, never wanted to see his fighters in the US. He always has been had to be forced over hot coals to take his fighters into deep waters for the legacy fights instead preferring to cater to the domestic market and create all British fights. That's why many fighters after a period needed to escape him so as to reach their goals. Ricky Hatton was another protected from the states for too long. Similar to Calzaghe. He ended up coming up against the best on the downslide of his career but unfortunately for him it was too much of a level change against Mayweather and Pacman. 

On Lewis. I loved Tyson, as a boxer myself growing up throughout the 80's his posters just like Chavez, Tommy Hearns, Ray Leonard adorned my bedroom walls. Here is the truth though, Tyson was as well managed as any fighter early in his career, you only have to look at his resume and the fighters he beat and those he struggled with. Lewis was never scared of Tyson and if you trawl back through the archives you will find as teenagers they sparred on more than one occasion as Lewis was in Canada at the time and frequently ended up in Catskill. He never avoided Tyson and arguably they both swerved each other due to circumstances whilst forging their own routes to the Championship. Tyson was fast tracked and Lewis more carefully managed when coming over back over to the UK. When Lewis finally came of age Tyson was already in a mess. Tyson arguably lost the best years of his life due to turmoil and Lewis, probably doesn't get the recognition he should because he never got the fights people really wanted to see at the right times. The Tyson fight being one but also the Bowe fights that never materialised.

 

 

 

[Follyfoot]

4 hours ago, avfc1982am said:

Quite right in that what get you kudos isn't always good for you. 

As for your cautious fighter call outs.....Lewis had more than enough battles to ever be classed as cautious, similar to Calzaghe who was a boxer puncher and did most of his best work inside and was far from cautious as he was a pressure fighter. Where all three excelled was through defence. Lewis and Klitschko had range and fought well at distance and Calzaghe had great movement and distance control. They utilised their strengths just as Mayweather and other great defensive fighters have,  using movement, timing and speed and ring craft. AJ doesn't and never will have those qualities and at 30 years old which is relatively young for a heavyweight it's going to get more and more difficult for him to escape damage. 

It's funny you mentioned Calzaghe though because Usyk is probably one of the closest fighters style wise to Calzaghe. Fighters like that don't need to hospitalise you. They'll just take pieces of you bit by bit, round by round until your soul is open and bare, and then they'll take that too.  

Indeed, to quote Calzaghe remarking on ‘left hook’ Lacey wanting a rematch ‘I can give you 1006 reasons why he shouldn’t get one’ For me Clazaghe is exceptional because his hands went quite a long way before the end of his career but still managed to retire undefeated

[Follyfoot]

3 hours ago, KentVillan said:

Great post, but Lewis wisely avoided Tyson in his prime, who was ending careers, and timed his fights with McCall and Holyfield well, *and* retired at about the right time. And Calzaghe yes I guess he was an all rounder who could come inside, but he never really got into a slug fest with anyone.

Wasn’t meant to be a criticism of either fighter, just think they looked after themselves well, and managed their careers well vs some of the “I’ll fight any man any day” types who took some real damage.

Calzaghe would have had a more celebrated career outside the UK if he’d just fought some of those big US names slightly earlier. His best fights will always be Kessler, Lacy and Eubank… not sure anyone will really take those Hopkins and RJJ fights as seriously as they would have been a few years earlier.

The more I think about AJ’s comments last night, the more sympathetic I am to him tbh. You learn any sport in later life and you never quite pick up the natural movement and technique. It must have been a nightmare for him trying to line up a more naturally gifted southpaw with better stamina than him. Fair play to him for trying to come up with a new plan. The Usyk/Calzaghe comparison is a good one. That combination of unorthodox style, hand speed, unbelievable stamina and a granite chin.

Great post but I disagree on Lewis. I think he’s in the top three of all time. You could argue that a mentally fit and motivated Lewis would give any heavyweight who has ever lived massive problems. For example look at the Tyson and Lewis performances against Ruddock, about a year apart, some  could argue that iron Mike had taken the fight of him but Lewis did a number on him that Tyson could not. All subjective opinion of course 

[sheepyvillian]

27 minutes ago, Follyfoot said:

Great post but I disagree on Lewis. I think he’s in the top three of all time. You could argue that a mentally fit and motivated Lewis would give any heavyweight who has ever lived massive problems. For example look at the Tyson and Lewis performances against Ruddock, about a year apart, some  could argue that iron Mike had taken the fight of him but Lewis did a number on him that Tyson could not. All subjective opinion of course 

Lewis is definitely top 5. Phenomenal athlete. The only boxer who I saw visibly hurt Tyson, both physically and mentally.

As for Calzaghe, you will struggle to find another super middleweight with such a phenomenal output of punching. He never stopped throwing those fists till that final ball rung. The way he made adjustments midway through his fight with Kessler, really tells you everything you need to know about how talented Calzaghe was.

[Demitri_C]

Que the robotic PR apology fron AJ. He dont mean a word of it. He showed his true colours yesterday.

[fightoffyour]

Fury really endeared himself, to me at least, when he opened up about all his mental health issues after beating Klitschko. Then he had to have a couple of comeback fights, where he was coming back from losing against himself essentially. Then he went and conquered the US as has been said, starting from the draw and incredible recovery off the canvas, which was probably the best fight I’ve ever seen.

[Genie]

I’ll never know why VK never finished off AJ at Wembley in the 6th (I think). Joshua was in all kind of trouble, a gust of wind would have floored him but for some reason he was allowed to recover. That always looks suspicious to me.

[foreveryoung]

10 hours ago, Genie said:

I’ll never know why VK never finished off AJ at Wembley in the 6th (I think). Joshua was in all kind of trouble, a gust of wind would have floored him but for some reason he was allowed to recover. That always looks suspicious to me.

There was  stage Saturday night when AJ probably could have finished Uysk off. He either ran out of steam or literally gave him a chance to recover.

[The Fun Factory]

Might be a good time for Joshua to call it quits and enjoy the rest of his life. He should have millions in the bank. He has been found out and is not a elite level boxer. He could drop down and fight at a lower  level for less money and wait for Fury to finally retire but why bother?

Edited August 22, 2022 by The Fun Factory

[Chine]

Just watched the after fight Joshua behaviour with subtitles on sky news , what a bellend ! Usyk would have been well within his rights to give him some more slaps , disrespectful chunt ! AJ a Millwall fan , if he moves up here he would wear a SHA shirt 

[tinker]

AJ lost something along the way, Pete Fury has some great points on him one being he never really let's his fists go like he did in the early days. If he'd done that in the ninth round, after 3 brutal body shots , he would have put Usyk in serious trouble. 

Usyk is a beast of a fighter, a technical Mike Tyson. Fury should stay retired, to me his speech has noticeably deteriorated since the last Wilder fight, he took some massive shots in that fight, he's proved himself as the world's best. 

[Chine]

25 minutes ago, tinker said:

AJ lost something along the way, Pete Fury has some great points on him one being he never really let's his fists go like he did in the early days. If he'd done that in the ninth round, after 3 brutal body shots , he would have put Usyk in serious trouble. 

Usyk is a beast of a fighter, a technical Mike Tyson. Fury should stay retired, to me his speech has noticeably deteriorated since the last Wilder fight, he took some massive shots in that fight, he's proved himself as the world's best. 

AJ behaved like a prat ! Not a fan of Peter Fury tbh comes across as a bit of a WAG ,never done a sausage himself , and whilst Tyson does have a great ability it’s a strong possibility his slurring could be down to his other popular hobbies 

[tinker]

9 hours ago, Chine said:

AJ behaved like a prat ! Not a fan of Peter Fury tbh comes across as a bit of a WAG ,never done a sausage himself , and whilst Tyson does have a great ability it’s a strong possibility his slurring could be down to his other popular hobbies 

He's trained Tyson Fury so he has done something. 

[The Fun Factory]

No way Fury is done. He would want a couple of fights v Usyk at least. That would probably clear a hundred million bucks.

[Demitri_C]

He will drag it out and fight usyk before retiring.

Then once fury gone leaves wilder aj or uysk to clear up the division again

[Chine]

1 hour ago, tinker said:

He's trained Tyson Fury so he has done something. 

Strange that isn’t it , Peter fury trained him from 2012-16 which also coincides with Tysons drug abuse/ health problems , the guy is a prize tool 

[foreveryoung]

So Fury on Talkshite today says he will come out of retirement to fight Uysk for half a billion in Saudi. But then goes on to say it's not about the money it's purely business, as Uysk is not a heavy weight so shouldn't really be fighting him. Reckons he won't fight him for less and the promoters have 7 days to sort it. Ohh, but he don't need the money??

Also said on live radio, knife welding cowards should be castrated by the government as jail costs to much.

Guys been hit too many times.

[stuart_75]

11 hours ago, foreveryoung said:

knife welding cowards should be castrated by the government as jail costs to much.

Guys been hit too many times.

Didn't he make some weird comments about having sex with your pet a few years back? Anyone bumming their dog should be castrated, not sure its a fit punishment for a knife welding coward.