Stevo985 Posted August 21, 2023 Author VT Supporter Share Posted August 21, 2023 18 minutes ago, Genie said: I think in this instance her logic is that if women were not seen as equals they’d still have their pension kicking in from the age of 60. Selfish females like those wanting to play football have led a wave of equality including having the women’s pension age aligned to that of men. Therefore, if women stayed in their lane and accepted being second class they’d have retained an earlier pension age. I think that’s it. It’s absolutely bonkers. Even if it was true, it's a bizarrely selfish view of the world. Reminds me of a previous work colleague who voted for Brexit because her husband was a pilot (not a professional one) and she said they could have more lax rules around flying if we weren't in the EU. Such an incredibly niche reason 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 Lucy Letby gets a whole life term, absolutely the right decision. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 1 minute ago, Genie said: Lucy Letby gets a whole life term, absolutely the right decision. Scum 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 It seems like the management are now being targeted (again rightly so). The senior manager who has since become director at another trust has been suspended. I wonder if criminal charges will follow for those who did not act properly when concerns were raised? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted August 21, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted August 21, 2023 3 minutes ago, Genie said: It seems like the management are now being targeted (again rightly so). The senior manager who has since become director at another trust has been suspended. I wonder if criminal charges will follow for those who did not act properly when concerns were raised? Everyone's blaming the management - and quite rightly so. But I'm not sure the doctors can claim the moral high ground quite so easily. My wife keeps saying "If I was one of those doctors who had so strongly suspected what was going on (as they claim), I'd have gone to the police, and to hell with protocol". I think I agree. This wasn't something to be dealt with in house, as if it was pilfering, or sloppy standards. It was a suspected serial killer. Of babies. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted August 21, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted August 21, 2023 30 minutes ago, Genie said: Lucy Letby gets a whole life term, absolutely the right decision. Everyone knew that was what she was getting the second she was found guilty. Countdown to getting shanked. Or finding out how much of a narcissist she is when left with the first bed sheet or shoe lace she can get her hands on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 6 minutes ago, mjmooney said: Everyone's blaming the management - and quite rightly so. But I'm not sure the doctors can claim the moral high ground quite so easily. My wife keeps saying "If I was one of those doctors who had so strongly suspected what was going on (as they claim), I'd have gone to the police, and to hell with protocol". I think I agree. This wasn't something to be dealt with in house, as if it was pilfering, or sloppy standards. It was a suspected serial killer. Of babies. I haven’t been following the case that closely (as I know it would be truly awful) but giving the doctors raising concerns the benefit of the doubt, did they suspect she was a murderer, or just a really shit nurse? If the powers that be are saying they’ve looked into it and there’s no foul play then who is going go risk their job/career/livelihood? It’s a bit like one of those scenarios where something kicks off and people on social media say “If I was there I’d have done this or that”. The fact nobody does suggests it’s different in the heat of the moment. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 21, 2023 Moderator Share Posted August 21, 2023 10 minutes ago, mjmooney said: Everyone's blaming the management - and quite rightly so. But I'm not sure the doctors can claim the moral high ground quite so easily. My wife keeps saying "If I was one of those doctors who had so strongly suspected what was going on (as they claim), I'd have gone to the police, and to hell with protocol". I think I agree. This wasn't something to be dealt with in house, as if it was pilfering, or sloppy standards. It was a suspected serial killer. Of babies. Have you ever tried to report a crime these days? The Police pass the buck as much as anyone else. There are proper channels for this, then you have the added complication of gathering the evidence which should the allegation prove false be a huge GDPR violation for the Trust and the Doctor getting sacked / struck off if it was proven to be incorrect. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 13 minutes ago, mjmooney said: Everyone's blaming the management - and quite rightly so. But I'm not sure the doctors can claim the moral high ground quite so easily. My wife keeps saying "If I was one of those doctors who had so strongly suspected what was going on (as they claim), I'd have gone to the police, and to hell with protocol". I think I agree. This wasn't something to be dealt with in house, as if it was pilfering, or sloppy standards. It was a suspected serial killer. Of babies. You're talking about your career going down the pan if you're wrong - and I'm not sure anyone would have reported murder, more malpractice or suspicion she was terrible at her job? Bear in mind that any doctor who did raise a suspicion will now be living with the fact they "could have done more". It'll be horrific for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted August 21, 2023 Moderator Share Posted August 21, 2023 4 minutes ago, Genie said: I haven’t been following the case that closely (as I know it would be truly awful) but giving the doctors raising concerns the benefit of the doubt, did they suspect she was a murderer, or just a really shit nurse? If the powers that be are saying they’ve looked into it and there’s no foul play then who is going go risk their job/career/livelihood? It’s a bit like one of those scenarios where something kicks off and people on social media say “If I was there I’d have done this or that”. The fact nobody does suggests it’s different in the heat of the moment. I heard some of the doctors saying that every time they got called in for particular kinds of emergencies, code blues or whatever you call them, she always happened to be rotad on that shift. Obviously there's probably more too. So enough for an investigation, but not cut & dried in and of itself. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desensitized43 Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 15 minutes ago, Chindie said: Everyone knew that was what she was getting the second she was found guilty. Countdown to getting shanked. Or finding out how much of a narcissist she is when left with the first bed sheet or shoe lace she can get her hands on. I suspect they won't be able to take her off suicide watch tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted August 21, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted August 21, 2023 1 minute ago, BOF said: I heard some of the doctors saying that every time they got called in for particular kinds of emergencies, code blues or whatever you call them, she always happened to be rotad on that shift. Obviously there's probably more too. So enough for an investigation, but not cut & dried in and of itself. This is basically what the case hinges on. Theres not much true, irrefutable smoking gun in her hand evidence that she did anything. The closest to that is her attending to one of the babies when it became gravely ill and being walked in on by the mother - but even then there wasn't evidence she actually was doing something. But what evidence there was was a sudden and sustained period of unusual baby deaths and they correlate with her being on shift/assigned to the babies/being involved during or after the incidents in each case, making herself involved in cases she wasn't assigned to, etc. She was also found to have falsified notes in one case that again isn't evidence of guilt but is **** suspicious. And then she seems to have had a very weird interest in the cases after the fact with some suggestion she kept very obscure trophies - keeping medical notes and photos of sympathy cards she wrote. As said before, the motivation behind this will keep some researchers in work for a very long time. And she doesn't strike me as one that's going to admit it or talk about it, so we may never know why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted August 21, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted August 21, 2023 6 minutes ago, desensitized43 said: I suspect they won't be able to take her off suicide watch tbh. I don't know. She doesn't immediately strike me as the kind to off herself. Hence the query of what might happen if she was given the opportunity. A big part of me doesn't think she would take it - she seems to have a bit of narcissism to me (which cuts both ways in suicide - love yourself too much to end it v love yourself too much to let yourself suffer). But then she might also be so gone mentally that she takes the chance to escape the hell she's fashioned for herself. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted August 21, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted August 21, 2023 26 minutes ago, Chindie said: This is basically what the case hinges on. Theres not much true, irrefutable smoking gun in her hand evidence that she did anything. The closest to that is her attending to one of the babies when it became gravely ill and being walked in on by the mother - but even then there wasn't evidence she actually was doing something. But what evidence there was was a sudden and sustained period of unusual baby deaths and they correlate with her being on shift/assigned to the babies/being involved during or after the incidents in each case, making herself involved in cases she wasn't assigned to, etc. She was also found to have falsified notes in one case that again isn't evidence of guilt but is **** suspicious. And then she seems to have had a very weird interest in the cases after the fact with some suggestion she kept very obscure trophies - keeping medical notes and photos of sympathy cards she wrote. As said before, the motivation behind this will keep some researchers in work for a very long time. And she doesn't strike me as one that's going to admit it or talk about it, so we may never know why. I haven't followed the case at all, can't bring myself to tbh, but didn't she write in her diary that she had done it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted August 21, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted August 21, 2023 8 minutes ago, tinker said: I haven't followed the case at all, can't bring myself to tbh, but didn't she write in her diary that she had done it? No. Following a search at her home 2 densely packed written notes were found. One of them, in all the stream of consciousness scrawl, had lines which said 'I am a horrible evil person' 'I am evil I did this' 'I killed them on purpose because I'm not good enough to care for them'. But the note also had lines like 'I've done nothing wrong', 'slander discrimination', and various things about fear for her future and impact on her family. And a second note included things like 'what allegations have been made?' 'there is no evidence I've done anything wrong', and continued the anguished stream of consciousness stuff - why me, self loathing, resentment at colleagues that had pointed fingers at her, worry for her family etc. It's not really a confession, and the prosecution never overly pushed it as a confession because they knew it was easy to rebuff - its someone in distress writing down their thoughts. The prosecution KC only called it a confession once and he carefully positioned it as a question, a suggestion for the jury to consider if it was a confession, not that they believed it was literally and unambiguously a confession. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delboy54 Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 Well if she didn't inject those poor babes with air or overdose them with insulin etc etc, then who did? It seems compelling evidence that she was the common link in all of these deaths or attempts to kill and harm, that's why they are looking at potentially others that she has killed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted August 21, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted August 21, 2023 55 minutes ago, Chindie said: No. Following a search at her home 2 densely packed written notes were found. One of them, in all the stream of consciousness scrawl, had lines which said 'I am a horrible evil person' 'I am evil I did this' 'I killed them on purpose because I'm not good enough to care for them'. But the note also had lines like 'I've done nothing wrong', 'slander discrimination', and various things about fear for her future and impact on her family. And a second note included things like 'what allegations have been made?' 'there is no evidence I've done anything wrong', and continued the anguished stream of consciousness stuff - why me, self loathing, resentment at colleagues that had pointed fingers at her, worry for her family etc. It's not really a confession, and the prosecution never overly pushed it as a confession because they knew it was easy to rebuff - its someone in distress writing down their thoughts. The prosecution KC only called it a confession once and he carefully positioned it as a question, a suggestion for the jury to consider if it was a confession, not that they believed it was literally and unambiguously a confession. She sounds schizophrenic. In that, there’s a break between personalities. One personality knows what they’ve done and the other can’t even admit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, mjmooney said: Everyone's blaming the management - and quite rightly so. But I'm not sure the doctors can claim the moral high ground quite so easily. My wife keeps saying "If I was one of those doctors who had so strongly suspected what was going on (as they claim), I'd have gone to the police, and to hell with protocol". I think I agree. This wasn't something to be dealt with in house, as if it was pilfering, or sloppy standards. It was a suspected serial killer. Of babies. Go to the police without a nhs investigation? There is a policy in place that nhs staff have to follow and if its anything like ours is you report it to management 1st so they can investigate it. Also they run the risk of getting sued if wrong and career destroyed Its managements fault. Clinicians are busy enough dealing with shit loads of patients they have a tough enough job. I 100% blame the management Edited August 21, 2023 by Demitri_C 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyeddie Posted August 21, 2023 Share Posted August 21, 2023 4 hours ago, Genie said: It seems like the management are now being targeted (again rightly so). The senior manager who has since become director at another trust has been suspended. I wonder if criminal charges will follow for those who did not act properly when concerns were raised? At the very least it is perverting the course of justice, but it should be corporate manslaughter. If 7 people died and 6 had life changing injuries in any other industry, there would be manslaughter charges. She only got away with it for so long because of the people in charge. In my eyes their scum too, caring more about their reputation than babies they have the responsibility to care for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marka Ragnos Posted August 21, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted August 21, 2023 (edited) Very excited to see in the news that ship engineers have worked to invent a new cargo ship that uses environment-friendly WIND POWER for propulsion. Amazing idea. Quote LONDON, Aug 21 (Reuters) - A Cargill chartered dry bulk ship has launched on its first voyage since being fitted with special sails, aiming to study how harnessing wind power can cut emissions and energy usage in the shipping sector, the U.S. commodities group said on Monday. The maritime industry - which accounts for nearly 3% of global CO2 emissions and is under pressure from investors and environmental groups to accelerate decarbonisation - is exploring a number of different technologies including ammonia and methanol in an effort to move away from dirtier bunker fuel. Edited August 21, 2023 by Marka Ragnos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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