Ratings & Reactions: Spurs v Villa

[duke313]

16 hours ago, Aston_Villan4 said:

The Carlos elbow to Gils face probably.

You mean when Gil walked into his elbow?

[Mazrim]

2 hours ago, Pinebro said:

Rather focus on Villa than taunting Spurs.

Why not both? If Spurs get triggered by this, that's shameful.

[tinker]

Spurs put too much effort into the first half and faded badly in the second half, we could and probably should have scored more, still not sure how none of their players got booked.

[ChicagoVillan1983]

2 hours ago, Teale's 'tache said:

I'm all for wanting to find ways to improve etc. However, anyone who expects to go away to Spurs and not be under pressure for a long period, are being naive in my opinion. We had a game plan, I'm sure part of that would have included soaking up pressure, especially for parts of the first hour at least, just stay in the game.

There is no team in history that has dominated every minute of every game they play, especially away from home, Man City, Liverpool, and Arsenal all have tricky periods in almost every game they play, maybe it's 10 minutes, maybe it's 20, maybe it's 45, there's always a spell where they don't have full control and have to defend. That's just football. I think we need to work on reducing how long that period of pressure can be sometimes, we can certainly improve, but it's easier against some teams than others.

Were rode our luck no doubt, but we just needed to keep in touch, the Spurs gameplan was to blow us away early and kill the game and they created enough chances to do that, but they didn't take them, as soon as it got to half time, especially with the bonus of the equaliser, it was obvious we had more left in the tank as well as more options from the bench to change the game, I would not be surprised if that was part of the plan, to be in touch at half time with a stronger bench to call upon.

It wasn't perfect, Emery wasn't happy, the halftime subs tell you that, issues needed correcting, but our manager is experienced and well-prepared for every possible eventuality.

I think Emery is looking for more control in these games, for a few reasons, one is obviously the more of the game you control the more likely the result falls in your favour, but also the more you have control the less energy you use. I see teams like Spurs, Newcastle and Arsenal with this crazy intense press, trying to keep that going for 90 minutes every game is going to have an effect at the back end of the season, especially for those in Europe. This is where an experienced operator like Emery is being very clever I feel, our approach of keeping the ball, slowing games down for periods, and only expending explosive energy when the opportunity is there is very clever and long-term hopefully will benefit us in the business end of the season.

 

 

 

I felt he got the first half wrong, and he knew it. I was impressed with how he changed it up - we have a lot of options on the bench to do that, and unlike previous managers he has more than one plan and is willing to adjust as needed.

No matter how much pressure we took, we always have the threat of going up the other end and scoring one more than them. Very enjoyable brand of football to watch.

Project will keep evolving and we'll get more and more pieces to improve at the back.

[tonyh29]

24 minutes ago, tinker said:

Spurs put too much effort into the first half and faded badly in the second half, we could and probably should have scored more, still not sure how none of their players got booked.

the foul on kamara as he skipped past 2 of their players at the edge of the area was the easiest yellow card you'll ever see 

but apparently the officials are biased against Spurs  

[Gompedyret]

On 26/11/2023 at 17:21, romavillan said:

It is isn't it? Been a long time since we've been in the top four. If we beat Bournemouth we'll be on 31 points after 14 games. Keep that pace up over a season and it's an 80pt+ season. That's incredible.

I won't pray, but I certainly will hope that Bournemouth doesn't turn out to be another Nottingham. Would be too bad if our season ends up being less than spectacular because of too many matches like that.

[mjmooney]

Jenas's expert opinion:

[thunderball]

Just dipped back in here after the dust has settled, and WOW, how salty, entitled and unlikable are the Spurs fan base?? And further, if you ever need to evidence of main stream media’s predisposition toward their top 6, and unashamed bias you have now.

Apparently this result was only about injuries to Spurs, it’s that simple, that is the only narrative in evidence. Spurs firmly on my “dislike list” now, I will look back with interest to see where they are at the end of December…..

I would add that some of the more cerebral outlets are generally notice/beginning to credit Villa, and specifically Emery, with doing something here at the moment.

Edited November 28, 2023 by thunderball

[Adman]

9 minutes ago, thunderball said:

Just dipped back in here after the dust has settled, and WOW, how salty, entitled and unlikable are the Spurs fan base?? And further, if you ever need to evidence of main stream media’s predisposition toward their top 6, and unashamed bias you have now.

Apparently this result was only about injuries to Spurs, it’s that simple, that is the only narrative in evidence. Spurs firmly on my “dislike list” now, I will look back with interest to see where they are at the end of December…..

I would add that some of the more cerebral outlets are generally notice/beginning to credit Villa, and specifically Emery, with doing something here at the moment.

They literally couldn't have played better in the first half whoever they'd have played.  It ended 1-1.

Second half they had ran themselves into the ground and yes without injuries could have brought some better options on - but I'm not sure it would have made that much difference.  I guess we'll see if / when they get their injured players back - if they top the table again, or if Ange Bielsaball doesn't keep the injury list full for the season

[DaveAV1]

12 hours ago, mjmooney said:

Jenas's expert opinion:

A terminally stupid BBC pundit if ever there was one. Crap player, crap pundit, working for the BBC so little going for the fella! File under, “best ignored”. 

[thunderball]

3 hours ago, Adman said:

They literally couldn't have played better in the first half whoever they'd have played.  It ended 1-1.

Second half they had ran themselves into the ground and yes without injuries could have brought some better options on - but I'm not sure it would have made that much difference.  I guess we'll see if / when they get their injured players back - if they top the table again, or if Ange Bielsaball doesn't keep the injury list full for the season

The Spurs view has got me riled TBH, its a self pity weighted view that avoids the bigger questions about their ability and form. Some of their recall of events is shocking, my take is wholly different to the popular narrative peddled (mainly by them):

1. Emery was surprised by Ange's formation and selection; we expected more space and their pressing and directness in attack was as impressive as our rusty back 5's inablity to get to grips with it, the lack of midfield link up mainly due to having 5 at the back at the expense of a conventional midfielder.

2. Cash is great at running the channels but badly struggled with coming inside and isnt as instinctive there as our usual suspects, he got caught out positionally and also his decision making was poor. 

3. For all our first half ineffectiveness and the brightness of Spurs, we weathered the first half storm and whilst they trumpeted Kulusevski's hitting the wood work and Son's offside goal, they score a deflected goal that was otherwise heading into Martinez's hand. We should have scored with Pau's header which was easier to hit the target than put narrowly wide; had a disallowed goal for at best a micro marginal/technical offside, at worst a bad call; and importantly scored an excellent goal through sheer determination and force of character.

4. Second half in the battle of the Manager's Emery prevailed - astute analysis, immediate action and transformed the game. Once we got ahead we controlled the game. We actually looked like we might have scored more but Bailey and Watkins both held back when the break was on, in the interest of playing the percentages and keeping possession amongst numbers:

5. Watkins could have added another if he hadnt stumbled in the box when clear and Bailey hit the post. 

6. Off side is part of our game strategy, its not their bad luck, you only have to look at our stats to see it is defensive excellence where our defence is better drilled than their offence. Its how we play, and frankly if off-side flags went up like they used to, they would even get the shot away, but VAR insists linemen keep their flags down which gives a false impression.

This intends no disrespect to Spur who are clearly well coached and look a very useful unit, they gave us one of our toughest games this season. Its early in their project and they do look very dangerous - good recruitment and further settling in will ensure they are an excellent proposition. However I think they have had easier games to date, timely matches when opposition was off colour and a flukey win against Liverpool which was VAR mistake assisted, so this down turn was always due. Like us they have a tough run to the end of December lets see where we all stand in January.

[TheStagMan]

23 hours ago, PaulC said:

You have to give credit to Spurs first half. The intensity of their play was something we couldn't cope with.  Also Cash was a liability which didn't help. Its no fluke we are 4th though. The form.has been there for over a year. If we can keep doing the  business at home and pick up our fair share of points away we are definitely in the mix for top 4. 

We have shown real character by coming back from defeats at Newcastle, Liverpool and Forest. 

Their intensity was the only way they could get to us, if they hadn't had that intensity we would have kept the ball and controlled the game from start to finish. The only way they could see to beat us was to throw everything at us to get ahead and then hope to hold on as they tired. No team could keep that intensity up and by 10 mins into the second half you could see their entire team was dead on their feet, allowing us to play our game the way we wanted to. We could and should have been better at the start but I am sure Unai will learn from that.

[TRO]

23 hours ago, Teale's 'tache said:

I'm all for wanting to find ways to improve etc. However, anyone who expects to go away to Spurs and not be under pressure for a long period, are being naive in my opinion. We had a game plan, I'm sure part of that would have included soaking up pressure, especially for parts of the first hour at least, just stay in the game.

There is no team in history that has dominated every minute of every game they play, especially away from home, Man City, Liverpool, and Arsenal all have tricky periods in almost every game they play, maybe it's 10 minutes, maybe it's 20, maybe it's 45, there's always a spell where they don't have full control and have to defend. That's just football. I think we need to work on reducing how long that period of pressure can be sometimes, we can certainly improve, but it's easier against some teams than others.

Were rode our luck no doubt, but we just needed to keep in touch, the Spurs gameplan was to blow us away early and kill the game and they created enough chances to do that, but they didn't take them, as soon as it got to half time, especially with the bonus of the equaliser, it was obvious we had more left in the tank as well as more options from the bench to change the game, I would not be surprised if that was part of the plan, to be in touch at half time with a stronger bench to call upon.

It wasn't perfect, Emery wasn't happy, the halftime subs tell you that, issues needed correcting, but our manager is experienced and well-prepared for every possible eventuality.

I think Emery is looking for more control in these games, for a few reasons, one is obviously the more of the game you control the more likely the result falls in your favour, but also the more you have control the less energy you use. I see teams like Spurs, Newcastle and Arsenal with this crazy intense press, trying to keep that going for 90 minutes every game is going to have an effect at the back end of the season, especially for those in Europe. This is where an experienced operator like Emery is being very clever I feel, our approach of keeping the ball, slowing games down for periods, and only expending explosive energy when the opportunity is there is very clever and long-term hopefully will benefit us in the business end of the season.

 

 

 

I agree with all of that, so when we make points as to suggesting how we can improve....why not?. That doesn't make us ungrateful for the stupendous win, its merely saying on another day, our luck may not be so strong.

I accept, playing the offside, is a part of our defensive strategy, but teams will work on beating it.....its too reliant on other forces, like the officials, who most fans have little trust in.

Its folly to be critical of Villa, because overall, they have been phenomenal, but it doesn't take a genius to see where the hole is in the stern.....I accept that teams do come at us, with unsustainable pressure, but I don't accept, that we can't make a better fist of stopping them, judging by the company, we are keeping at the top of the table......Top teams resist pressure and work hard off the ball, we was floundering at times, its that that needs to improve.

I think your comments of preserving energy, and avoiding injuries, by not going gungho like some teams, is a prudent strategy....but I also think we could benefit in the squad of having some personnel, whose expertise is of stopping high intensity opponents...I don't think we have enough of that.

Our ability to score goals, is probably as good as it gets, in my view....to have a few players in the squad, who are equally adept at stopping game opponents from exploiting us, might be useful tools in the tool box.

I accept your view of having a reasonable take on going away to a top team and not expecting to dominate them.....but we will see pretty soon the next 2 Premier League Games, how they choose to negate our present effervescence at Home.

What we have done this year in terms of points is phenomenal, but we are talking about these games, where we have struggled....you rightly say that UE was not happy with certain elements of our play, so why should (we who saw, what he saw) we be.

Your opening line is what its all about.....How can we sustain these great results?, How can we sustain the great league position?......but how can we improve our away form?....thats not being thankless or negative, its following the same line as the manager.

Is it not so wonderful for us, we have a manager who is not satisfied, when he see's area's of games to improve upon, and not sit back and wallow in his past performances, which, would be very easy to do.

We have a progressive manager, why not a progressive fan base to match?

 

Edited November 28, 2023 by TRO

[TRO]

6 hours ago, DaveAV1 said:

A terminally stupid BBC pundit if ever there was one. Crap player, crap pundit, working for the BBC so little going for the fella! File under, “best ignored”. 

As much as it irks me Dave....I can understand, why these pundits, gravitate towards these views....even if I disagree with them.

Neutrals will think we was lucky, and despite all our claims towards mitigation of that....Their view won't change.....The late Offside Flag, will undoubtedly fuel the argument, that we rode our luck.....the old offside early flag, would have us a using the offside prudently.

At the end of the day.....The 3 points is all that matters, so how we got it ( 2 superbly taken goals, no tap ins) is really immaterial......but to those who, want to find fault with us, will have a bit of meat on the bone.

I would wager....Spurs would swap scenarios with us, give the chance.

Ps I seem to remember a lucky day for them at Villa Park, when they scored 4 ......We ran out of steam like them second half, don't remember much sympathy for us, that day.

 

Edited November 28, 2023 by TRO

[srsmithusa]

IMO, the main reason Matty was not very effective was that he was pushing more to the inside and up high, it also negated a lot of Diaby as they were both in too much same space.  It worked when the personnel was changed to Youri and Bailey, not because they are significantly better, but becuase Bailey stayed  a bit wider and deeper and Tielemans started from a deeper position, it left room on the front inside right for each of them to take turns exploiting.

I suspect that it was Unai's original plan but negated because Matty moved too far inside and then stayed too central, while Diaby stayed too high so he didn't have space to run into.

 

[DaveAV1]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

As much as it irks me Dave....I can understand, why these pundits, gravitate towards these views....even if I disagree with them.

Neutrals will think we was lucky, and despite all our claims towards mitigation of that....Their view won't change.....The late Offside Flag, will undoubtedly fuel the argument, that we rode our luck.....the old offside early flag, would have us a using the offside prudently.

At the end of the day.....The 3 points is all that matters, so how we got it ( 2 superbly taken goals, no tap ins) is really immaterial......but to those who, want to find fault with us, will have a bit of meat on the bone.

I would wager....Spurs would swap scenarios with us, give the chance.

Ps I seem to remember a lucky day for them at Villa Park, when they scored 4 ......We ran out of steam like them second half, don't remember much sympathy for us, that day.

 

You’re right when the boot is on the other foot, regardless of the reason, the opinions are completely different. Ollie’s offside was pretty marginal, although I’d say he was just off. None of theirs were even close to being on and some had other players comfortably off side. But hey as long as the rest of the world keeps writing us off but we keep winning, who cares? I know I don’t! UTV!!! 

[Teale's 'tache]

56 minutes ago, TRO said:

I agree with all of that, so when we make points as to suggesting how we can improve....why not?. That doesn't make us ungrateful for the stupendous win, its merely saying on another day, our luck may not be so strong.

I accept, playing the offside, is a part of our defensive strategy, but teams will work on beating it.....its too reliant on other forces, like the officials, who most fans have little trust in.

Its folly to be critical of Villa, because overall, they have been phenomenal, but it doesn't take a genius to see where the hole is in the stern.....I accept that teams do come at us, with unsustainable pressure, but I don't accept, that we can't make a better fist of stopping them, judging by the company, we are keeping at the top of the table......Top teams resist pressure and work hard off the ball, we was floundering at times, its that that needs to improve.

I think your comments of preserving energy, and avoiding injuries, by not going gungho like some teams, is a prudent strategy....but I also think we could benefit in the squad of having some personnel, whose expertise is of stopping high intensity opponents...I don't think we have enough of that.

Our ability to score goals, is probably as good as it gets, in my view....to have a few players in the squad, who are equally adept at stopping game opponents from exploiting us, might be useful tools in the tool box.

I accept your view of having a reasonable take on going away to a top team and not expecting to dominate them.....but we will see pretty soon the next 2 Premier League Games, how they choose to negate our present effervescence at Home.

What we have done this year in terms of points is phenomenal, but we are talking about these games, where we have struggled....you rightly say that UE was not happy with certain elements of our play, so why should (we who saw, what he saw) we be.

Your opening line is what its all about.....How can we sustain these great results?, How can we sustain the great league position?......but how can we improve our away form?....thats not being thankless or negative, its following the same line as the manager.

Is it not so wonderful for us, we have a manager who is not satisfied, when he see's area's of games to improve upon, and not sit back and wallow in his past performances, which, would be very easy to do.

We have a progressive manager, why not a progressive fan base to match?

 

I think the point I was trying to make is that you're never going to be completely perfect, where you can dominate every single team for every minute of every game, home and away. If Man City cannot do it with the best players and best coach in the world then it's unlikely to ever be done. It is just not achievable, and so quite rightly we can be pragmatic and make room for those spells in our planning, which I believe Emery does. I have no problem with those calling for improvement when we win, looking for areas we may have been lacking, it's the demanding of the impossible I think is taking it a bit far.

It's the same with transfers sometimes, the demands for each one to be perfect are not based on reality.

I think we agree on where the improvements need to be made, how we improve them may vary, more press-resistant players would certainly help, quicker movement/communication and options provided by the team as a whole could help also, and dare I say it also be a bit smarter and know when to soak up a bit of time and take the pressure off (Martinez excluded). Away from home is always a tricky setup, I don't think there's one solution that works for all teams we are going to face, so there's always a possibility of getting it wrong at first, but having options available and a savvy manager means we can still get something out of those games as long as we stay in them.

I think because the results have been so good, some forget quite how much upheaval there has been. We've been missing all of the players we played down our left-hand side last season, we've had to bed in a new center half without our main organiser in that back line. A lot of what we worked on during pre-season was lost with those key injuries and so we've had to adapt quickly. Had we had last year's defence in full to build with and then add to, maybe we'd be able to manage these heavy-pressing teams a bit better.  We may already have the players to deal with or mitigate the problem, we just haven't been able to get them on the pitch.

Emery demands improvement, in everything, all of the time, and it's fine for us fans to do the same, but it's not enough to just demand improvement, you have to know what to improve and how, anyone can keep shouting 'be better this' or 'do that better', that's the easy part. Finding solutions and implementing them is the difficult bit.

[TRO]

1 minute ago, DaveAV1 said:

You’re right when the boot is on the other foot, regardless of the reason, the opinions are completely different. Ollie’s offside was pretty marginal, although I’d say he was just off. None of theirs were even close to being on and some had other players comfortably off side. But hey as long as the rest of the world keeps writing us off but we keep winning, who cares? I know I don’t! UTV!!! 

Ollies offside was never the intention of the creators of the game to deal with offside.....it was an embarrasment, and I would say that irrespective who was on the end of that decision.

I have lost the grip on what offside constitutes now....its like a rubik cube to me......Some could have said it was level, some could have said advantage to the attacker. It sometimes seems like they want to level it up, when their offsides were so obvious.

but as you say....who cares.............................NEXT.

[TRO]

9 minutes ago, Teale's 'tache said:

I think the point I was trying to make is that you're never going to be completely perfect, where you can dominate every single team for every minute of every game, home and away. If Man City cannot do it with the best players and best coach in the world then it's unlikely to ever be done. It is just not achievable, and so quite rightly we can be pragmatic and make room for those spells in our planning, which I believe Emery does. I have no problem with those calling for improvement when we win, looking for areas we may have been lacking, it's the demanding of the impossible I think is taking it a bit far.

It's the same with transfers sometimes, the demands for each one to be perfect are not based on reality.

I think we agree on where the improvements need to be made, how we improve them may vary, more press-resistant players would certainly help, quicker movement/communication and options provided by the team as a whole could help also, and dare I say it also be a bit smarter and know when to soak up a bit of time and take the pressure off (Martinez excluded). Away from home is always a tricky setup, I don't think there's one solution that works for all teams we are going to face, so there's always a possibility of getting it wrong at first, but having options available and a savvy manager means we can still get something out of those games as long as we stay in them.

I think because the results have been so good, some forget quite how much upheaval there has been. We've been missing all of the players we played down our left-hand side last season, we've had to bed in a new center half without our main organiser in that back line. A lot of what we worked on during pre-season was lost with those key injuries and so we've had to adapt quickly. Had we had last year's defence in full to build with and then add to, maybe we'd be able to manage these heavy-pressing teams a bit better.  We may already have the players to deal with or mitigate the problem, we just haven't been able to get them on the pitch.

Emery demands improvement, in everything, all of the time, and it's fine for us fans to do the same, but it's not enough to just demand improvement, you have to know what to improve and how, anyone can keep shouting 'be better this' or 'do that better', that's the easy part. Finding solutions and implementing them is the difficult bit.

I accept all of that....except I am demanding nothing, I am more than grateful overall of what I am getting.

My point, I was trying to make is.....In that first 20 minutes, I felt, we could have done better to nullify them, even though the outcome was much the same....That is just my opinion.

However, I do accept, that we can't be at our best in every game.....Neither can Man City, but in terms of degrees, they manage it more often, so we have something to aim/reach for.

[VillaJ100]

Voted Cash just to trigger all the Spurs nuggets lurking the forum