Stephen_Evans Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 Modern clubs think differently don’t they. We fans thought a bigger ground was a good thing and that it wouldn’t matter if some games didn’t sell out as long as the bigger games did. It would give us growing room. One of the saddest things is that growing TV money over the past 30 years should have meant less reliance on income from fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wishywashy Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 (edited) It's just so frustrating because I don't see what they stand to gain from this complete lack of transparency. We've been given two official explanations from the club for the North Stand that boil down to "leftover tickets" and "don't want to disrupt the atmosphere". Neither of them are remotely valid justifications (the former is full of holes and the latter is just nonsense) and they will know that (I really hope they do, at least). If Heck turned round and said in his interview that spiralling inflation and key political bodies being opposed/reluctant meant that it wasn't viable to spend over £100m on a stand (that MIGHT be the case? yet again, we're having to conjecture because they haven't told us anything truthful) and that's why it's being cancelled (as opposed to 'delayed') it'd still be a bitter pill to swallow, but at least it would be a defensible explanation. So why do they feel the need to quite clearly lie out of their skin about this? From their unwillingness to engage in basic transparency to their bizarre FAB responses and engagement, it really suggests that they do not even pretend to give a crap what the fans think at best, and see us as almost a nuisance at worst. I really, really want to be wrong. I agree that they really are very lucky it's going perfectly on the pitch, and it's probably partially why they think they can get away with their current attitude: surely even Heck wouldn't do stuff like this under Gerrard. Edited December 28, 2023 by wishywashy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 10 minutes ago, wishywashy said: If Heck turned round and said in his interview that spiralling inflation and key political bodies being opposed/reluctant meant that it wasn't viable to spend over £100m on a stand (that MIGHT be the case? yet again, we're having to conjecture because they haven't told us anything truthful) and that's why it's being cancelled (as opposed to 'delayed') it'd still be a bitter pill to swallow, but at least it would be a defensible explanation. So why do they feel the need to quite clearly lie out of their skin about this? If the club said that they would be well aware of the online uproar that the owners are pulling the plug on funding and we are broke. Is a few people on here begging for this excuse to have a pop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wishywashy Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Zatman said: If the club said that they would be well aware of the online uproar that the owners are pulling the plug on funding and we are broke. Is a few people on here begging for this excuse to have a pop There's more than enough evidence that this isn't the case, given everything else going on around the club in terms of continued investment and the multi-club model. But I've seen people suggest that's the case specifically because the club refuse to be transparent about it. The way they've approached the stadium issue, the crest, and these FAB meetings is just leaving a bit of a sour taste. I think it's reasonable enough and not just "having a pop" to be absolutely delighted at the performance and growth of the club, while thinking that one element that is quite clearly important to a lot of fans has big room for improvement. Edited December 28, 2023 by wishywashy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 18 minutes ago, Zatman said: If the club said that they would be well aware of the online uproar that the owners are pulling the plug on funding and we are broke. Is a few people on here begging for this excuse to have a pop I don’t think broke is the right term, it’s more about the cost/benefit analysis of building a new North Stand now doesn’t make financial sense because of both resources and cost in the current climate. I think most people would understand that but would be disappointed. The whole too quick, not enough fans is just bizarre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
est1874 Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 (edited) 13 hours ago, mikeyjavfc said: I’m sick of the badge stuff, just want them to pick and stick with a design. They can’t win really. Many people have said previously that the new round badge was too concerned with fan feedback and designed by committee, and therefore basically a rehash of the 1980s badge. Now the club are being accused of ignoring fans opinions and designing their own vision. Whilst the FAB are complaining about this, many have said in the past that this was the correct approach all along. So it’s basically impossible to please everyone and your views on the approach to the design and consultation probably boils down whether you like the end product or not. Exactly this. And what's the endgame of the badge process complaints? Another consultation? I for one do not want to go through all this yet again. They need to pick one and stick with it. The Lerner badge is not great, nor is the round replacement. This latest new badge might be crap too, but we're not losing anything great, and I'm not interested in another trip on the merry-go-round here. Edited December 28, 2023 by est1874 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 2 minutes ago, DakotaVilla said: It’s literally his job to have good comms and relations with his customers (sorry fanbase!) so that he can maximise both customer experience and income. If you get it right, it’s a self powering dynamic. Give people stuff they actually want and be transparent in comms and they will gladly spend their money on the club, particularly during this halcyon extended honeymoon period on the pitch. Heck unfortunately though has shown an innate ability to piss the fanbase off at every given opportunity and literally disappeared off the face of the earth for a couple of months until we were about to go top of the league. He’s shown appalling incompetence in branding so far - apparently the thing he was famous for . Of course if he delivers a new branding to be proud of and is working on some kind of master plan re the stadium I’ll quite happily change my mind. All the signs at the moment though are that it will be all shite though and he’ll limp to the summer and the new commercial deals - that a one legged blind monkey could probably negotiate considering the drastic improvement on the pitch - that will be confirmed in the summer will be used as some kind of proof that this fraud knows what he’s doing. You just know he’s going to rename Villa Park don’t you?!?! I can see him announcing it as some great deal….’Durex Villa Park’ or ‘Comcast Stadium’ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 Honestly don't think that (most) people would throw a hissy fit if the club just said that "The club and owners don't have unlimited funds and atm we feel those funds are better spent by improving the squad and helping Emery on the pitch rather than on a stadium rebuild that has gotten costlier and more complicated". Or something like that. Saying we have a 30.000 waiting list, the stadium is not selling out on a regular basis and also saying we don't want to temporarily decrease capacity for a season or 2 is a bit contradictory imo. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, est1874 said: And what's the endgame of the badge process complaints? Leave the current round badge that the fans asked for in the survey….round not shield, with star and full name all asked for. This is not hard to solve 8 minutes ago, est1874 said: They need to pick one and stick with it. The club did along with an extensive fan’s consultation yet Heck wants to change it after being here a few months. Edited December 28, 2023 by nick76 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted December 28, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted December 28, 2023 Also, didn't they say the shield was the overwhelming choice after the consultation, yet I don't think a round badge was one of the options? That's kind of a rich claim to make when what was the most popular choice 12 months ago wasn't on the menu. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoony Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 There’s no point sugar coating it, these fan consultations are bollocks and they’re only interested in rinsing as much cash out as possible. Which I understand as that’s just what football is now, but it’s shit and our owners are frankly no better than any other billionaire using football as their plaything and getting it as commercialised and cash producing as possible. Your everyday non-day tripper non-tourist fans aren’t even secondary - I wouldn’t even know where they are in the pecking order anymore. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Townsend Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 (edited) That is precisely why it is bizarre it isn't full steam ahead on the new stand. To me, the North Stand getting cancelled is a far bigger problem and points to what a shambles things are off the pitch. I have never known demand for tickets to be what it has been since 2018. I am sure we would sell tickets to a new type of fan we are probably picking up right now. If not now when? Edited December 28, 2023 by Captain_Townsend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tayls Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 (edited) There’s a lot of neg at the moment isn’t there in regards to the club? Not helped by the manner of the defeat the other day, but it makes these other off fields matters seem worse… Im not just saying this to upset people and come across as the most negative person in the world, but it does seem to be coming from a few sides now. Edited December 28, 2023 by Tayls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 4 minutes ago, Tayls said: There’s a lot of neg at the moment isn’t there in regards to the club? Not helped by the manner of the defeat the other day, but it makes these other off fields matters seem worse… Im not just saying this to upset people and someone across as the most negative person in the world, but it does seem to be coming from a sides now. Not really, I think the disappointment of Man U game and less so Sheff Utd is one thing. It was just a reality check we aren’t really title contenders and we have a fight for Top4. The off the field is separate because of the decisions Heck is taking, I don’t think they are being viewed the same or even really that connected. They don’t think it’s comparable, one was disappointment, the other is Heck doing what he wants and opposite to fan’s view and wants. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 So, despite the first survey giving the results that a round badge was most popular, is Heck now trying to state that in his survery, everybody's plumped for the original shield instead? If I've got that right, I'm not sure I believe him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted December 28, 2023 Author Moderator Share Posted December 28, 2023 The club have asked the group to confirm that: "The club liaised with the FA throughout the crest process and the FA have confirmed we are compliant with the rules in relation to the change of a Heritage Asset". Which provides clarity on the process they've undertaken and the second survey that was sent out, with the FA accepting that the results of that survey are an acceptable indication of fan feeling. As others have said, I think there's a certain amount of 'badge fatigue' and we'd all just like something reasonable that we can adopt and go forward with. There is a quite clear change of approach in the way Heck will do things as opposed to previous CEO's and I guess it's something we'll have to get used to. He's an autocratic leader, so we'd best hope he's also very good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHY Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 I’ve never attended one of these meetings but do they ever get heated or is it a case a club doing what they want and they are just box ticking by having them. I only ask as this Heck bloke just seems to be doing what he wants. The owners have got so much right since they saved us but this bloke seems to be on a bit of a power trip imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post El Segundo Posted December 28, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted December 28, 2023 (edited) The whole things comes across as an exercise to try and demonstrate they are genuinely consulting fans when they are actually just doing what they think is right and ticking "fan consultation" boxes with lip service. He may be commercially astute in US terms, but I'm afraid Heck comes across as a blatant liar with little or no understanding of, nor care for, English Football fans, our club, it's history and traditions. The "200 unsold seats per PL game" as a sign there is insufficient demand is a case in point and sums up his approach. Take a minor, insignificant stat and spin it to suit your argument. It is utterly unconvincing, disingenuous. It's an insult to our intelligence. Here's just a few reasons why it's bollocks: 200 seat is less than half a per cent of capacity. A proportion of these are marked as restricted view, which many people, including me, will not pay for. The vast majority will be single seats - most people do not want to go and sit on their own. Getting hold of unsold tickets either online or by phone can be akin to breaking into Fort Knox. If my experience trying to get an extra ticket for the Sheffield United and Burnley games is anything to go by, unsold seats are not all released at the same time, nor in good time. Very late in the day a raft of tickets became available for the Sheffield game which were nearly all on the back row of the upper Holte. At a point when most people had probably given up. Where did they all suddenly come from? The website often shows games as "sold out" shortly before further tickets suddenly become available. A Season Ticket waiting list in the thousands, possibly tens of thousands, can never, ever be outweighed by by a piddling dribble of scattered unsold seats per game. To even think it can is hilariously arrogant. Everything he has done has been unpopular with the fans yet he spouts on about how consultation with us is at the centre of his strategy. The guy is utterly untrustworthy and a Charlatan as far as I'm concerned. Edited December 28, 2023 by El Segundo 8 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHY Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 4 minutes ago, El Segundo said: The whole things comes across as an exercise to try and demonstrate they are genuinely consulting fans when they are actually just doing what they think is right and ticking "fan consultation" boxes with lip service. He may be commercially astute in US terms, but I'm afraid Heck comes across as a blatant liar with little or no understanding of, nor care for, English Football fans, our club, it's history and traditions. The "200 unsold seats per PL game" as a sign there is insufficient demand is a case in point and sums up his approach. Take a minor, insignificant stat and spin it to suit your argument. It is utterly unconvincing, disingenuous. It's an insult to our intelligence. Here's just a few reasons why it's bollocks: 200 seat is less than half a per cent of capacity. A proportion of these are marked as restricted view, which many people, including me, will not pay for. The vast majority will be single seats - most people do not want to go and sit on their own. Getting hold of unsold tickets either online or by phone can be akin to breaking into Fort Knox. If my experience trying to get an extra ticket for the Sheffield United and Burnley games is anything to go by, unsold seats are not all released at the same time, nor in good time. Very late in the day a raft of tickets became available for the Sheffield game which were nearly all on the back row of the upper Holte. At a point when most people had probably given up. Where did they all suddenly come from? The website often shows games as "sold out" shortly before further tickets suddenly become available. A Season Ticket waiting list in the thousands, possibly tens of thousands, can never, ever be outweighed by by a piddling dribble of scattered unsold seats per game. To even think it can is hilariously arrogant. Everything he has done has been unpopular with the fans yet he spouts on about how consultation with us is at the centre of his strategy. The guy is utterly untrustworthy and a Charlatan as far as I'm concerned. Get this bloke at a FAB meeting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Segundo Posted December 28, 2023 Share Posted December 28, 2023 1 minute ago, WHY said: Get this bloke at a FAB meeting. I would happily go and I would happily tell Heck exactly what I think of him (politely of course) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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