useless Posted January 31 Author Share Posted January 31 Only seven points seperate Everton in the last relegation spot and Fulham in twelfth. Luton having a brilliant go at it, ten poinst from their last five games, they've already got more points than our relegated team got in the entire season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 On 31/01/2024 at 15:35, useless said: Luton having a brilliant go at it, ten poinst from their last five games, Same as Villa! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 On 31/01/2024 at 15:35, useless said: Only seven points seperate Everton in the last relegation spot and Fulham in twelfth. Luton having a brilliant go at it, ten poinst from their last five games, they've already got more points than our relegated team got in the entire season Seems like a crucial run coming up for them. Newcastle (A), Sheff Utd (H), Man Utd (H), Villa (H), Palace (A), Forest (H) Whilst some tougher teams in there (hard to see them getting anything at Newcastle), I think they'll fancy their chances of picking up some points before hitting Spurs, Arsenal and Man City all away in their following 4 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 Well now seems like a good time to check back in with this, now that we've got two of the key protagonists in our next two matches. The current state of play: As we know, the current state of things is that Burnley and Sheff Utd are basically relegated, while it looks to be a straight shootout between Luton and Everton to avoid the final spot. Forest, Palace and Brentford are all rubbish, at or around the point-per-game mark, but a 5 point gap is pretty big in the context of a relegation battle where none of the teams have any form to speak of. With both having just one win in their last five matches, neither Forest nor Luton is in any sort of form for our games, but we know Luton are dangerous at home and probably should have got a point out of United. But wait, not so fast! What about points deductions? Here we enter a world of uncertainty, in which all we can do is speculate. My assumption is that Everton will fail in their appeal; after all, they pleaded guilty. But if they do get a reduction in their penalty, it will leave the bottom three marooned with not much hope even for Luton, though Forest might be sweating. But what about Forest, and Everton, and their *new* breaches? Again, all we can do is guess, but if they both get a ten point penalty, the relegation battle would truly come alive. The virtual table would be: 16th - Luton - 20 17th - Forest - 14 18th - Burnley - 13 19th - Sheff Utd - 13 20th - Everton - 10 Suddenly Luton look to be very nearly home free! Forest, meanwhile, somehow remain outside the bottom three but now have a more desperate need for points. Despite being two of the worst teams in Premier League history, Burnley or Sheff Utd could yet survive. Of course there are many other possibilities. One argument I expect Everton to make forcefully is that, with the new rules stipulating punishment in the season of the breach, they are the only club who *could* be punished twice in one season. Maybe the league take pity, just deduct 3 or 5 points or something and leave them just outside the bottom three, dunking Forest into it? Or maybe Everton are allowed to carry the punishment into next season, and remain on 20 this season (more or less safe) but begin on -10 in August? One thing's for sure, it's springtime for sports lawyers! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted February 19 Moderator Share Posted February 19 Forest are expecting a points deduction I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picicata Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 I reckon they'll half the punishment with Everton getting two -5 deductions and Forest one -5 deduction. That will probably leave them both safe at the end of the season, though Everton could be touch and go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Platt Posted February 20 VT Supporter Share Posted February 20 The points deduction needs clarity no appeals and everyone understanding what happens when you break the rules. I also think if you get hit with the deduction your FFP balance should reset to the limit. That way you are not punished twice by having to balance the books. Now again this comes back to clarity and a sliding scale of points depending on how much you go over in the 3 year period. Clubs could gamble and take the hit to build a team but that's on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desensitized43 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 Burnley have really been disappointing this season. When they got promoted it felt like they were the best placed to make a go of it but they've been really slow to adapt to the league and needed to abandon some of the principles that served them well last year, play a bit more compact, a bit more long ball and just generally show a bit of pragmatism. That's on Kompany and I think if it wasn't for his name there'd be a lot of pundits and others saying he's got to go. People have rightly been all over Sheffield united for being probably one of the worst teams in the league but Burnley have the same points and only a marginally better goal difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 17 minutes ago, desensitized43 said: Burnley have really been disappointing this season. When they got promoted it felt like they were the best placed to make a go of it but they've been really slow to adapt to the league and needed to abandon some of the principles that served them well last year, play a bit more compact, a bit more long ball and just generally show a bit of pragmatism. That's on Kompany and I think if it wasn't for his name there'd be a lot of pundits and others saying he's got to go. People have rightly been all over Sheffield united for being probably one of the worst teams in the league but Burnley have the same points and only a marginally better goal difference. He should have been sacked a long time ago. It was clear last season they would be cannon fodder but people built them up as a top ten challenger and Kompany be set to replace Pep Kompany has bought into his hype and so did a lot of peoples. Were barely mentioned in the relegation predictions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Dogg Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 23 minutes ago, desensitized43 said: Burnley have really been disappointing this season. When they got promoted it felt like they were the best placed to make a go of it but they've been really slow to adapt to the league and needed to abandon some of the principles that served them well last year, play a bit more compact, a bit more long ball and just generally show a bit of pragmatism. That's on Kompany and I think if it wasn't for his name there'd be a lot of pundits and others saying he's got to go. People have rightly been all over Sheffield united for being probably one of the worst teams in the league but Burnley have the same points and only a marginally better goal difference. They are being criticized now but probably fairly soft. The club made a decision to recruit youth and it has massively backfired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desensitized43 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 8 minutes ago, Zatman said: He should have been sacked a long time ago. It was clear last season they would be cannon fodder but people built them up as a top ten challenger and Kompany be set to replace Pep Kompany has bought into his hype and so did a lot of peoples. Were barely mentioned in the relegation predictions I don't think it was clear they'd be cannon fodder. They comfortably won the division playing some really good football. The issue was that doing it at Blues or Rotherham is very different to going to top half premier league teams and trying to go toe-to-toe with them. I've only seen a couple of teams come up and do that successfully (Wolves is the one that comes to mind). For a lot of the league there's probably 12 games a season where there's a very real possibility you'll be camped in your own half trying to not get destroyed. You can't be trying to pass out while getting no time on the ball, giving away shocking goals, taking 5-0 defeats and then coming out going "well we've got a style of playing and we're going to continue to do that even if it's clearly not working". 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 2 hours ago, picicata said: I reckon they'll half the punishment with Everton getting two -5 deductions and Forest one -5 deduction. That will probably leave them both safe at the end of the season, though Everton could be touch and go That would put Forest in far more danger. They'd be on 19 points and Everton on 25. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Platt Posted February 20 VT Supporter Share Posted February 20 10 minutes ago, Wainy316 said: That would put Forest in far more danger. They'd be on 19 points and Everton on 25. I think the logic is the existing 10 point reduction gets reduced to 5 but they get another 5 point deduction with Forest for the new breaches. So 10 points in total for Everton. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 That would make the punishment seem kind of toothless IMO. If a 5 point penalty is the only consequence of not following the financial rules, you'll start getting owners who gamble that they can make up that deficit through reckless spending on better players. 2 more wins a season and it's already paid for! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 3 hours ago, S-Platt said: The points deduction needs clarity no appeals and everyone understanding what happens when you break the rules. I also think if you get hit with the deduction your FFP balance should reset to the limit. That way you are not punished twice by having to balance the books. Now again this comes back to clarity and a sliding scale of points depending on how much you go over in the 3 year period. Clubs could gamble and take the hit to build a team but that's on them. A reset could be bad though. A club could go all out, take a points deduction and then be clear after that and still work the benefits of the overspend. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Platt Posted February 20 VT Supporter Share Posted February 20 1 hour ago, Dodgyknees said: A reset could be bad though. A club could go all out, take a points deduction and then be clear after that and still work the benefits of the overspend. Like I say they need to have the deductions in black and white sliding scale. If a club is happy to risk the points deduction so be it. There needs to be a way to allow spending that is not saddling a club with debt. Its not a level playing field. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAZZAM Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 I'm desperate for Everton to go down. They are such a bitter and deluded fan base that need a reality check of the championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 Forest to be given -10. Everton to get a -10 delayed until next season. I agree that -5 is not enough, neither is -6. But they do need to establish the deductions in the rules.... Exceed by x million, get y points deduction, and the minimum for a breach should be enough to dissuade any club from wanting to breach it. For City they need a special deduction of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaJ100 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 On 20/02/2024 at 09:22, desensitized43 said: I don't think it was clear they'd be cannon fodder. They comfortably won the division playing some really good football. The issue was that doing it at Blues or Rotherham is very different to going to top half premier league teams and trying to go toe-to-toe with them. I've only seen a couple of teams come up and do that successfully (Wolves is the one that comes to mind). For a lot of the league there's probably 12 games a season where there's a very real possibility you'll be camped in your own half trying to not get destroyed. You can't be trying to pass out while getting no time on the ball, giving away shocking goals, taking 5-0 defeats and then coming out going "well we've got a style of playing and we're going to continue to do that even if it's clearly not working". Yeah most teams are pragmatic and very happy with winning about half of their home games and drawing a quarter and losing a quarter, and away winning 4-5, drawing 4-5 and losing half. That'll put you on about 45-50 points and a nice boring 9-12th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 On 20/02/2024 at 09:09, Zatman said: He should have been sacked a long time ago. It was clear last season they would be cannon fodder but people built them up as a top ten challenger and Kompany be set to replace Pep Kompany has bought into his hype and so did a lot of peoples. Were barely mentioned in the relegation predictions They absolutely blitzed the Championship playing some wonderful football. For whatever reason, they seem to have abandoned that this season. I expected a Keegan-esque approach to the league, continuing the attacking and knowing they'd concede a fair few. Instead, they just don't score anywhere near enough... but still concede a fair few. They should have been more Bournemouth than Sheffield United. Similarly, though, I don't think Kompany should be sacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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