Delphinho123 Posted December 20, 2023 Share Posted December 20, 2023 26 minutes ago, CVByrne said: I get you didn't grasp the post despite it's relative simplicity.So I'll explain further. It's what's called a comparison. You see there were two players in that post there, one was Zaniolo and the other Philogene. Yeh. Philogene is better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted December 20, 2023 Share Posted December 20, 2023 Kamory Doumbia has just scored 4 goals in a half against Lorient. Only 20. Never heard him before today. Sign him up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted December 20, 2023 Share Posted December 20, 2023 19 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said: Yeh. Philogene is better. Erm. Excuse me. Zaniolo has played for Italy and will cost £25m. Stop comparing comparable things. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david-avfc Posted December 20, 2023 Share Posted December 20, 2023 1 hour ago, lexicon said: You've also got the benefit of hindsight. JPB hadn't proved himself capable of producing consistently in the final third before this season and there was no way in hell he was getting first team. Personally I felt like I’d seen enough from him in preseason to think he was worth a chance. Out the 3 sold in the summer he was the only one to make an impression on the team in pre season, Archer and Ramsey showed they were well off the first team level but Philogene whilst still a bit rough around the edges was one of our better players in several games, he looked ready. I am not surprised he’s currently one of the highest rated players in the championship. Had we sold him for twice or three times as much I’d say fair enough, but as per my original post the £5m boost for FFP figures was straight out of the door for a loan fee for Zaniolo, who so far in half a season has not shown he was any more ready for PL football than Bidace. Hopefully Zaniolo can improve, I think he will do, but there’s a hell of a long way he needs to go to justify a €22.5m rising to €38m transfer fee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted December 20, 2023 Share Posted December 20, 2023 7 minutes ago, villaglint said: Do you have a link to the 38m figure. Not sure I’ve heard that before and it sounds crazy high. Gala said it themselves, its on the interwebz. so if we did buy, its base 27.5m (loan plus fee). obviously, add ons of 15.5m, could take it to 43m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaglint Posted December 20, 2023 Share Posted December 20, 2023 Just now, MaVilla said: Gala said it themselves, its on the interwebz. so if we did buy, its base 27.5m (loan plus fee). obviously, add ons of 15.5m, could take it to 43m. Yeah it was posted above too thanks. Hadn’t realised it was so high. I actually like him and think there is a player there but he’s a long long way from being a 40m euro player right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david-avfc Posted December 20, 2023 Share Posted December 20, 2023 2 hours ago, CVByrne said: Zaniolo is €5m loan fee and a €22.5m buy option and €15.5m in potential add-ons. Zaniolo is an Italian international, has played multiple seasons in Europe including the Champions League. Philogene is 2 and a half years younger than Zaniolo, has played a total of 8 minutes of Premier League football. Why do people try compare things that are in no way comparable? Having international experience and experience of top competitions is obviously great but a CV alone doesn’t kick the ball on the pitch. The reality is Zaniolo has been poor for villa so far, I’d love for him to improve and there’s obviously some talent there, but it’s an expensive loan and the buy option is eye wateringly high so I’d expect more from him versus what we’ve seen so far. The point about Philogene isn’t to say he’s PL superstar level but if FFP is an issue as it’s so frequently talked about, then developing up a player like Philogene is a smart way to save on transfer costs rather than buying expensive squad players who don’t quite hit the mark. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted December 20, 2023 Share Posted December 20, 2023 We’re links to Johnathan Rowe from Norwich England U21 winger he’s not expensive and has scored plenty in the Chanpionship,3rd highest scorer I think might be a gem for Unai to polish, nice bargain if he can step up with some Unai magic dust sprinkled on him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted December 20, 2023 Share Posted December 20, 2023 7 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said: We’re links to Johnathan Rowe from Norwich England U21 winger he’s not expensive and has scored plenty in the Chanpionship,3rd highest scorer I think might be a gem for Unai to polish, nice bargain if he can step up with some Unai magic dust sprinkled on him Sounds fishy 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul514 Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 4 hours ago, Jareth said: Don’t really know much about him other than his talent was much coveted not long ago. Doubt we’d touch him if he’s unstable though. He has had issues at Dortmund as well as Utd 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul514 Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 3 hours ago, villaglint said: Yeah it was posted above too thanks. Hadn’t realised it was so high. I actually like him and think there is a player there but he’s a long long way from being a 40m euro player right now. A very long way from it. like everyone says his talent and physique warrants it but his record this season and pervious doesn’t Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Adam2003 Posted December 21, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted December 21, 2023 Be fascinating to look at a Venn Diagram of the people telling me Zaniolo isn’t good enough with the people who told me Tielemans, McGinn, Douglas Luiz, Ollie Watkins, Digne, and even in his time Jack Grealish weren’t good enough for us. One day patience may extend past 11 league appearances… 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 5 hours ago, allani said: I agree with 95% of that post but we do have to remember thaty McGinn, Luiz, Konsa, Kamara and Martinez weren't really signed to be players to push us into CL places. It's taken some of them time to develop into players capable of being key members of a team capable of challenging the so-called Big 6. Whereas any signings we make now will be under pressure to perform at that level much, much quicker. This will make it much more difficult to find players that represent such great value. Can we take a punt on a midfielder for an above average SPL team to come in and play at McGinn's level within a couple of months. The patience that some fans have (not) given to signings like Bailey, Buendia, Tielemans, Zaniolo, Digne, etc - who haven't come in and immediately churned out team leading performances suggests that it would be harder for a player like Luiz to come in, figure out his position and stamp his authority / influence on the team. There are very few players signed for £5m who immediately become key players for teams battling in the top third of the PL table. I get your point and it has validity.....but those players was not playing for UE....It does take time, but Elite coaches, shorten that time. As of the emboldened bit...............Very few players play for Unai Emery. but I was thinking more of staying with the 20-40m zone and not getting in to the 60-80mill zone. Anyway, I think its the collective improvement that has us in the top 5, The machine is all in sync.....players coming in, should be able to dovetail in to the collective force...without creating individual icons, that disrupt the harmony with huge transfer fee's, and astronomical wages I think what we have done so far in terms of the type of team we have built, is central to our success. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul514 Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 2 hours ago, Adam2003 said: Be fascinating to look at a Venn Diagram of the people telling me Zaniolo isn’t good enough with the people who told me Tielemans, McGinn, Douglas Luiz, Ollie Watkins, Digne, and even in his time Jack Grealish weren’t good enough for us. One day patience may extend past 11 league appearances… He is on a loan, not a 4 year contract. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 Maybe I’m mad but Connor Gallagher would be a great pick up. Would be daft for Chelsea to sell but they may have to given he is homegrown and will really help their FFP. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 6 hours ago, TRO said: I get your point and it has validity.....but those players was not playing for UE....It does take time, but Elite coaches, shorten that time. As of the emboldened bit...............Very few players play for Unai Emery. but I was thinking more of staying with the 20-40m zone and not getting in to the 60-80mill zone. Anyway, I think its the collective improvement that has us in the top 5, The machine is all in sync.....players coming in, should be able to dovetail in to the collective force...without creating individual icons, that disrupt the harmony with huge transfer fee's, and astronomical wages I think what we have done so far in terms of the type of team we have built, is central to our success. I agree with you. I think that Emery (and Monchi) will back themselves to find really good players in that price bracket and then turn them into players with a value in the second bracket - rather than going straight for the "elite" priced players. If so then it is still represents really good value for money. Also I think Emery wants players who put the team first and buy into his approach - which is generally a little bit easier to do if you are giving a player their big break rather than signing players who already believe that they are world class. I believe that Emery and Monchi want to build a legacy in the style of Wenger's Arsenal or to an extent Ferguson's United. Taking a club like Villa and turning them into genuine contenders is (I believe) more important to them than winning trophies with clubs like City, PSG, Real Madrid, etc. Similarly, I think they take great pride in seeing good players develop into great players - you can kind of tell that Emery loves McGinn and Luiz because he's got that pushy father type vibe when praising them "Yeah they were great today but it's about getting to the next level now". So I'm 100% sure the bulk of our transfers this window and going forwards will be done with that in mind. However, like you say a £5m player of 3 or 4 seasons ago is now more likely to be a £30-40m player. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 1 hour ago, Delphinho123 said: Maybe I’m mad but Connor Gallagher would be a great pick up. Would be daft for Chelsea to sell but they may have to given he is homegrown and will really help their FFP. I agree 100% under Emery he'd improve massively. I just feel there isn't an exact role for him in our squad as he's not a CDM 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DakotaVilla Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 He could be cover for Luiz but that would be hugely indulgent considering the cover we already have and the pressing needs at RB, DM, Back up striker and back up GK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicho Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 10 hours ago, DaveAV1 said: We’re links to Johnathan Rowe from Norwich England U21 winger he’s not expensive and has scored plenty in the Chanpionship,3rd highest scorer I think might be a gem for Unai to polish, nice bargain if he can step up with some Unai magic dust sprinkled on him I like what I’ve seen from him and I still want us to be shopping in the championship, there are good young premier league players there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted December 21, 2023 Share Posted December 21, 2023 So I looked at the squad and players that need to move on. I've tried to calculate their 23/24 cost in terms of FFP to us in our accounts. I've then calculated sale values and then worked out the impact in 24/25 season ie the headroom it gives us. This gives us an idea of how much spending power we can free up to sign a new player. So a 40m signing being paid 6m a year for 5 years cost us 14m in squad cost per season. So essentially if we move the above on and loan Coutinho out again for his wages being paid we free up about 55m in our accounts. New contracts for Watkins and Bailey free's up about another 5m. Taking us to 60m. We add in some sales of KKH, Azaz and Iroegbunam say that adds another 10m. To take us to 70m. Selling players has to be the key focus right now. We have a good squad. A good Loan and 2 top signings in Summer and replace Olsen in a cost flat way. We'll do no incomings in Jan I feel. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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