Judge Mental's Sexism and Misogyny Topic

[Stevo985]

1 hour ago, Demitri_C said:

Like i said in my post if even the actor is saying you cant get away with it now then whats that saying? I havent watched it in a while im sure i can find references where people would get offended at but id find hilarious 

Anything you “can’t get away with” is for the better. 
 

But you can still get away with plenty. It just has to be framed in the right way. 
 

Always Sunny, for example, gets away with a lot of sexism, racism etc because the joke is the characters are such horrible people that you’re laughing at how awful they are, rather than laughing at the people being the brunt of the joke. 
 

That’s the key. 

[Davkaus]

5 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Anything you “can’t get away with” is for the better. 
 

But you can still get away with plenty. It just has to be framed in the right way. 
 

Always Sunny, for example, gets away with a lot of sexism, racism etc because the joke is the characters are such horrible people that you’re laughing at how awful they are, rather than laughing at the people being the brunt of the joke. 
 

That’s the key. 

Though even when that is the case, there's either retrospective backlash or the fear of it leading to episodes being pulled. there's 4 or 5 episodes where various characters use blackface that are gone, when the message is still "look how outrageously inappropriate and awful these characters are".

Partially a shame, because there are some **** brilliant moments in some of those (like Mac and Dennis deciding to switch characters and just changing who blacks up part way through one of their Lethal Weapon episodes, gets me every time).

I've always felt like that defence was pretty much convincing, but it'd have been the same going back to, as @mjmooney says, Alf Garnett.

As always when we discuss these things, there's the risk of a bunch of mostly straight, white heterosexual able-bodied blokes talking about what should and shouldn't be offensive, and I imagine that if you're on the other side of it and the joke is "look how ignorant this character is, saying racially or sexually inoffensive things, who behaves like this?!", it might land a little differently if part of your day to day life is people behaving like that towards you.

It's funny you mention Always Sunny, because I got a small taste of being on the other side of it, via proxy, this week, we're watching the new series, and spoiler warning, there's an episode where they go to an old childhood favourite venue they went to when they were kids, and the running jokes was about how you can't run a business like that anymore - you can't be as racist, you can't ignore health and safety, you've got to all be politically correct, etc, and one of the characters was a "r*tarded" mascot who couldn't move or speak properly. With our recent cerebral palsy diagnosis, **** me did that touch a nerve. Yeah the joke is "you can't openly mock people who struggle to speak or move" anymore. But you're doing it, repeatedly, for laughs and it **** sucks.

[tomav84]

5 hours ago, bobzy said:

Yeah - just look at all the fuss over trans people. Why are people so offended over it? It’s ridiculous. 

this 100%. the same people that say "people are offended by everything these days" are the ones that lost their minds when uncle bens became bens original or when a black actress was cast as ariel in the little mermaid

[sidcow]

16 hours ago, foreveryoung said:

True, although I didn't realise how sensitive VT men are. 

You forgot to put the quotation marks around "men"

[sidcow]

3 hours ago, mjmooney said:

It's comedy written by a woman, with a female lead. In the same way that black characters in films can use the 'n' word. 

People who point to this as hypocrisy or double standards totally fail to grasp the difference. 

 

BUT you could then argue that we should really have a female moderator with specific remit to moderate for sexism as only a female is qualified to make those judgements. But you'd get totally different moderation from Millie Tant than say Katie Price. 

Same as you could find plenty of black people would wouldn't be at all happy about the use of the 'n' word regardless of if is had been written, produced, directed and acted by a black person. 

[rjw63]

3 hours ago, VILLAMARV said:

thonks

[sidcow]

3 hours ago, Mark Albrighton said:

Exactly.

Just so I’m clear, my point was to counter the suggestion that you can’t get away with crude humour like you used to, when in reality one of the most critically acclaimed comedies of recent times had a not insignificant amount of lewd comedy.

I think there is actually quite a strong counter movement, driven by The Internet, people like that Romanian guy at the forefront rebelling against the current PC world. I have to pick up on my 20 year old son sometimes.  He knows that Romania guy is a word removed but there are levels.  I'm suprised by some stuff my 18 year old daughter says at times as well. 

Maybe it's just the youth trying to be a bit edgy. 

Maybe us old bastards (mainly) become more sensitive as we age. 

[Demitri_C]

49 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Anything you “can’t get away with” is for the better. 
 

But you can still get away with plenty. It just has to be framed in the right way. 
 

Always Sunny, for example, gets away with a lot of sexism, racism etc because the joke is the characters are such horrible people that you’re laughing at how awful they are, rather than laughing at the people being the brunt of the joke. 
 

That’s the key. 

Yeah id agree with most of that - but atill some elements i think todays audience wouldnt have made it as popular as it was

Another one that on top my head that i think would get crucified today is little britain

[Rodders]

Yeah but little Britain was just **** shit

[rjw63]

26 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Yeah id agree with most of that - but atill some elements i think todays audience wouldnt have made it as popular as it was

Another one that on top my head that i think would get crucified today is little britain

Papa lazarou has been removed from BBC iPlayer.

Chevey Chase blacking up has been removed from Community on Netflix.

Although by accounts I've read he's a bit of a peenarse.

[Stevo985]

1 hour ago, rjw63 said:

Papa lazarou has been removed from BBC iPlayer.

Don’t think that’s true

[rjw63]

3 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Don’t think that’s true

Maybe but I remember reading League of Gentlemen with Papa Lazarou had all been removed, will have a look later to see if it’s still there

[Stevo985]

6 minutes ago, rjw63 said:

Maybe but I remember reading League of Gentlemen with Papa Lazarou had all been removed, will have a look later to see if it’s still there

Got taken off Netflix I think but still on iplayer. Could be wrong

[maqroll]

Perhaps it's because I worked in the restaurant industry for many years and my perception is skewed, but in my experience, women can be just as raunchy and sexually objectifying as men. I've heard female banter and witnessed female behavior that would make the crudest crude boy blush. The primary difference of course is the overall power dynamic that prevails within the patriarchal societies we live in, and the stark reality of male physical dominance and the corresponding inherent threat of physical harm. But when women feel relatively secure in their environment, I think they can give "the lads" a run for their money.

[bobzy]

13 minutes ago, maqroll said:

Perhaps it's because I worked in the restaurant industry for many years and my perception is skewed, but in my experience, women can be just as raunchy and sexually objectifying as men. I've heard female banter and witnessed female behavior that would make the crudest crude boy blush. The primary difference of course is the overall power dynamic that prevails within the patriarchal societies we live in, and the stark reality of male physical dominance and the corresponding inherent threat of physical harm. But when women feel relatively secure in their environment, I think they can give "the lads" a run for their money.

Absolutely. And you’re completely correct in the power context. A woman slapping a man’s arse is no different to a man slapping a woman’s arse in practice, but the reality is that there’s a more threatening element to a man doing it.

We just happen to be a load of blokes so it’s relatively difficult to see the female side of things.

That said, I do think there’s a more lecherous side to male comments. As others have said, a lot of my female friends would have no hesitation in commenting on appearance, but it’s rarely done in the same manner. It’s almost more… playful(?) rather than “cor, I’d love to **** her”. 

[foreveryoung]

38 minutes ago, bobzy said:

Absolutely. And you’re completely correct in the power context. A woman slapping a man’s arse is no different to a man slapping a woman’s arse in practice, but the reality is that there’s a more threatening element to a man doing it.

We just happen to be a load of blokes so it’s relatively difficult to see the female side of things.

That said, I do think there’s a more lecherous side to male comments. As others have said, a lot of my female friends would have no hesitation in commenting on appearance, but it’s rarely done in the same manner. It’s almost more… playful(?) rather than “cor, I’d love to **** her”. 

This is so idealistic. Women can be threatening too, you know that don't you? You can have pretty boys and pretty girls who wouldn't hurt a fly. But you can also have men and women, who will put your lights out, plenty of women about to do that these days.

If you wanna start getting to the phycological side of it too, men might be physical, but plenty of women can destroy you over time, better than any man could.

[bobzy]

33 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

This is so idealistic. Women can be threatening too, you know that don't you? You can have pretty boys and pretty girls who wouldn't hurt a fly. But you can also have men and women, who will put your lights out, plenty of women about to do that these days.

If you wanna start getting to the phycological side of it too, men might be physical, but plenty of women can destroy you over time, better than any man could.

It's not idealistic, it's just factual.  Of course women can also be threatening - I'm not saying they can't?  But the vast, overwhelming amount of evidence we have says that men commit more sexual offences than women.  Women don't commit 0 offences - of course they don't.  Men just commit a hell of a lot more.

I can't believe you're disputing this to be honest.

[ml1dch]

40 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

This is so idealistic. Women can be threatening too, you know that don't you?

The woke snowflakes on this thread are so thin-skinned and sensitive, can't cope with real masculinity and should just strap on a pair.

But I've decided to come back from my knicker-wetting flounce to complain about how much girls scare me.

Edited July 23, 2023 by ml1dch

[Davkaus]

Any bloke here ever felt intimidated walking past a group of women on a dark street?

[bobzy]

Just now, Davkaus said:

Any bloke here ever felt intimidated walking past a group of women on a dark street?

Exactly.  It's just not a thing.