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SAS allegations. Why isn't this bigger news?


Marka Ragnos
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Deeply surprised to see this story hasn't even nudged onto UK front pages this week. I thought Panoramas were accorded loads of respect and pan-media coverage in the UK. We're talking about alleged systematic, deliberate killings of unarmed people by the British military, aren't we? 

Have the MOD put out gag orders or something? Can they? Is the whole thing fuzzier and less clear than it might seem? From Daily Beast:

 

Quote

British special forces carried out a series of killings of unarmed men and detainees in suspicious circumstances in Afghanistan, according to the BBC. Reports obtained by the news organization suggest operatives in just one unit from the Special Air Service (SAS) may have unlawfully killed 54 people over the course of a six-month tour. The BBC also alleges to have uncovered evidence that Gen. Sir Mark Carleton-Smith, the former head of U.K. Special Forces, failed to give vital evidence on the killings to a murder inquiry run by the Royal Military Police. Witnesses to the alleged crimes say members of the accused SAS squadron would use “drop weapons”—AK-47s planted at the scene of a killing—to justify the shooting of an unarmed person.

 

Read it at BBC News

 

 

 

Edited by Marka Ragnos
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Nobody wants to touch the story with a bargepole.

Panorama only get front page news when they accuse the opposition party of anti-Semitism.

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Because the flag shagging help the heroes obsessed types will crucify and try to cancel anyone on social media who dares speak against our hard working totally squeaky clean by the numbers BRITISH army. Our lads. Our boys etc…

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49 minutes ago, Ingram85 said:

Because the flag shagging help the heroes obsessed types will crucify and try to cancel anyone on social media who dares speak against our hard working totally squeaky clean by the numbers BRITISH army. Our lads. Our boys etc…

its another debate I'm sure , but my experience of social media is that its a hotbed of rabid know it all left wing clearing in the woods  ..

mind you perhaps I shouldn't judge all social media by VillaTalk   :D

 

Even though it  was reported on the BBC news webpage yesterday and was raised as a question in the commons  , I learnt of it from here  .. i suspect the wider public aren't even aware of VillaTalk or the allegations as a result .

but there have been two investigations into these allegations , that didn't find any substance to the claims   , I'm sure there will be a third ...and  If they are shooting innocent civilians then they should be held to account be they British or Australian forces (who have also been accused ) 

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This is what war is, legalised murder. I know a few boot necks who openly talk about the Afghan born troops systematically killing captured Taliban to stop any reprisals once they are released or when we pull out...........

They had to turn a blind eye but the trauma this caused them was clear to see. 

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28 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

 

but there have been two investigations into these allegations , that didn't find any substance to the claims   , I'm sure there will be a third ...and  If they are shooting innocent civilians then they should be held to account be they British or Australian forces (who have also been accused ) 

The article touches upon these two investigations. One where they investigated themselves and found that they're a great bunch of lads, and one where the military police investigated and it's been verified that there was limited cooperation and some information was withheld.

Let's hope the third one is in depth, unobstructed, and comes to the fair and honest verdict, whatever that may be.

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2 hours ago, Chindie said:

Nobody wants to touch the story with a bargepole.

 

Interesting ... was thinking it was "just me," but I told my wife about it, and we were both kind of crushed. I guess we idealize British humanity a bit, and it honestly knocked me for a loop. I know all about British history, colonialism, etc., but it's one of the great rules-based liberal democracies, and this is like My Lai. 

2 hours ago, Ingram85 said:

Because the flag shagging help the heroes obsessed types will crucify and try to cancel anyone on social media who dares speak against our hard working totally squeaky clean by the numbers BRITISH army. Our lads. Our boys etc…

And here I thought we'd more or less cornered the market on those types in America.   

51 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

 ...and  If they are shooting innocent civilians then they should be held to account be they British or Australian forces (who have also been accused ) 

Yes, agreed. It's a relief to know that there are people who share that feeling.

35 minutes ago, tinker said:

 I know a few boot necks who openly talk about the Afghan born troops systematically killing captured Taliban to stop any reprisals once they are released or when we pull out..........  

Not untrue, I suspect. But damn ...

32 minutes ago, Anthony said:

Yeah, was main headline on BBC news website yesterday. 

Yes, it was after all a BBC report.

24 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

There's 2 sides to this story. You will hear only one from the media. I personally will never speak out or disrespect the SAS, neither will 95% of the UK army.

Of course, and maybe more than two. But speaking up about human rights abuses isn't tantamount to disrespecting the military, surely? Isn't speaking up a way to strengthen it?

 

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The moment that 'revealed' the SAS to the world had a couple of questionable moments in this vein. The Iranian Embassy siege. The first incident is the accusation that they shot men who had surrendered, which was investigated and ruled justifiable as it was understood the hostage takers had grenades and they couldn't risk capturing them, and the second where its been alleged one of the SAS guys was possibly going to summarily execute one of the terrorists that hid amongst the hostages and had to be stopped from doing so.

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1 hour ago, foreveryoung said:

There's 2 sides to this story. You will hear only one from the media. I personally will never speak out or disrespect the SAS, neither will 95% of the UK army.

I don’t get why it’s disrespecting the SAS as a regiment to say a small minority of them might have done some really bad things.

The history of the SAS shows they are mostly extremely brave, impressive men, with also some pretty shady psychopaths in the ranks. They shouldn’t be allowed to damage the regiment’s reputation, surely?

War crimes don’t stop being war crimes because you’re an elite special forces unit.

Edit: and fwiw I don’t want to guess how difficult it must be to go into these kinds of situations as effectively a trained killer often bottling up extreme fear to do insanely dangerous things. But in the case of the Australian SAS murders, it was *other* SAS guys who were calling it out. Not just armchair pundits trying to whip up a scandal.

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1 hour ago, foreveryoung said:

There's 2 sides to this story. You will hear only one from the media. I personally will never speak out or disrespect the SAS, neither will 95% of the UK army.

You seem to be confusing disrespect and accountability.

Do you think a blind eye should be turned to war crimes if they are found to have taken place? 

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1 minute ago, Sam-AVFC said:

You seem to be confusing disrespect and accountability.

Do you think a blind eye should be turned to war crimes if they are found to have taken place? 

I just don't think what the SAS do should not be brought into the media. If illegal stuff has happened it should be delt with ofcourse, but behind closed doors. It's of no interest to the public.

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2 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

I just don't think what the SAS do should not be brought into the media. If illegal stuff has happened it should be delt with ofcourse, but behind closed doors. It's of no interest to the public.

I'm sure everyone agrees, but when there are allegations of the investigations being coverups there is no other recourse. Presumably this is why people with knowledge of the situation leaked it. Public scrutiny has a tendency to force improved standards of behaviour.

I'm still not sure where the disrespect was?

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What do people think goes on in wars?

We send them to deal with savages.

Be more constructive than bombing people into the hands of nutters, maybe there'll be fewer savages?

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28 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

I just don't think what the SAS do should not be brought into the media. If illegal stuff has happened it should be delt with ofcourse, but behind closed doors. It's of no interest to the public.

I think there are cultural/historical and legal differences here in our disagreement on this. Here in the US, the media is a watchdog. It's enshrined in the Constitution. In the UK, there are more regulatory bodies overseeing the media.  So I think part of I'm hearing in you is that tendency to leave it to the appointed overseers, and I respect that difference. But if these were American special forces, there would be no keeping it out of the media.

13 minutes ago, Xann said:

What do people think goes on in wars?

We send them to deal with savages. 

War is horror. But there are laws even in war -- even in the horror, right? 

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