sparrow1988 Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 9 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: I shouldn’t have used the inverted commas. I actually think a lot of Liverpool fans turned up with no tickets. Fake tickets is making out some of them are victims. Same thing happened in Istanbul and many fans all charged through the barriers. Security just gave up and you had 2-3 people to a seat in certain areas. That was avoided in Madrid as you couldn’t get close enough to ground without a genuine ticket. Did it happen in Istanbul? I don't remember hearing anything about it. I'll take your word for it unless you produce an article from The Sun. The bolded bit is my biggset issue. There should be controls to stop people without a ticket getting to the ground. It is an organisational failure first and foremost. The french authorities said that they had reports before the game of up to 40% worth of the capacity in fake tickets had been produced. If that was the case (highly unlikely), then why the f*** weren't they prepared for it? Of course there were fans there being idiots but when you look at who has come out and said what a shambles it was organisationally - journalists (including ones that have been to AFCON for the last 20 years where stadium safety lags behind Europe), pundits, fans associations (neutral ones I mean), it all points to it being just an organisational mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 1 minute ago, sparrow1988 said: Did it happen in Istanbul? I don't remember hearing anything about it. I'll take your word for it unless you produce an article from The Sun. The bolded bit is my biggset issue. There should be controls to stop people without a ticket getting to the ground. It is an organisational failure first and foremost. The french authorities said that they had reports before the game of up to 40% worth of the capacity in fake tickets had been produced. If that was the case (highly unlikely), then why the f*** weren't they prepared for it? Of course there were fans there being idiots but when you look at who has come out and said what a shambles it was organisationally - journalists (including ones that have been to AFCON for the last 20 years where stadium safety lags behind Europe), pundits, fans associations (neutral ones I mean), it all points to it being just an organisational mess. They were prepared, they had the riot gear on and the batons ready 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparrow1988 Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 2 minutes ago, villa4europe said: They were prepared, they had the riot gear on and the batons ready I suppose they were 'French police style' prepared. That much is true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 2 minutes ago, sparrow1988 said: I suppose they were 'French police style' prepared. That much is true. Which is why I can't lay in the Liverpool fans over this, experienced it first hand the french police are **** words removed 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calcifer Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 30 minutes ago, sparrow1988 said: Did it happen in Istanbul? I don't remember hearing anything about it. I'll take your word for it unless you produce an article from The Sun. The bolded bit is my biggset issue. There should be controls to stop people without a ticket getting to the ground. It is an organisational failure first and foremost. The french authorities said that they had reports before the game of up to 40% worth of the capacity in fake tickets had been produced. If that was the case (highly unlikely), then why the f*** weren't they prepared for it? Of course there were fans there being idiots but when you look at who has come out and said what a shambles it was organisationally - journalists (including ones that have been to AFCON for the last 20 years where stadium safety lags behind Europe), pundits, fans associations (neutral ones I mean), it all points to it being just an organisational mess. I can only go off what some fans told me. They said lots turned up without tickets and the Turkish authorities lost control and opened some gates. Crowds charged in. The idiot told me himself he was one of them that was just sitting on a random seat. It’s very fortunate things didn’t turn ugly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 32 minutes ago, sparrow1988 said: The bolded bit is my biggset issue. There should be controls to stop people without a ticket getting to the ground. Commonly that control is called a brain cell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparrow1988 Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 4 minutes ago, Mic09 said: Commonly that control is called a brain cell. I wouldn't go without a ticket and based on your comment you wouldn't, but we probably both know people that would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 10 minutes ago, sparrow1988 said: I wouldn't go without a ticket and based on your comment you wouldn't, but we probably both know people that would. I'd be sitting in a fan zone, probably under the Eiffel tower, drinking many beers and enjoying myself. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 1 minute ago, Mic09 said: I'd be sitting in a fan zone, probably under the Eiffel tower, drinking many beers and enjoying myself. That's what I don't understand about it, you chance your arm at the ground and don't get in you're not getting in anywhere, you wont even make it back in to town let alone in to a place with spaces So you know what you're doing an hour or 2 hours before the game when you make your journey to the stadium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 8 minutes ago, villa4europe said: That's what I don't understand about it, you chance your arm at the ground and don't get in you're not getting in anywhere, you wont even make it back in to town let alone in to a place with spaces It certainly looks like many people got lucky! (Some got very unlucky and got tear gassed, which is obviously horrible.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 3 hours ago, blandy said: I've seen a thread on twitter from a spanish Madrid fan, with a genuine ticket who says it was initially thought to be a fake by the Police - who were using some kind of pink ink pen to "detect" fake tickets. I've seen Andy Robertson the Liverpool full back say his complimentary ticket passed to his brother or friend was claimed to be a fake. I saw the French authorities immediately claim there were 10s of thousands of fans with fake tickets, yet they couldn't possibly have known that when they claimed it. And these alleged 10s of thousands of fans - they seem to have miraculously vanished, as they were not pictured by any cameras or photographers. It's conceivable there were a few in circulation, but the claim there were thousands doesn't stand up to the slightest scrutiny. What there is evidence of is: Local youths robbing and mugging spanish and Liverpool fans in significant numbers Local youths climbing fences to try and get in Police kettling supporters, of both sides, but particularly Liverpool Turnstiles being closed for no apparent reason Massive delays to people trying to get in hours before kick off and a build up of fans which the authorities couldn't cope with. Some (small number) of supporters being idiots Police massively over reacting and tear gassing kids and the elderly. Similar problems at that ground for Rugby matches. The supporters of both sides appear to be largely blameless in all this. But already the media messaging from UEFA and the French authorities is causing people to think " Oh, look, scousers at it again" I suspect a significant part of the problem is due to (the understandable, perhaps) mindset that (because of idiots in the summer at Wembley) there would be all kinds of fan trouble, but in fact there was none, just massively stupid policing and admin. All very good points, happily overlooked by the majority - partly because of your point in bold, which I think UEFA and the French authorities are more picking up on than changing peoples' minds on. I mean, just look at the state of the comments on this forum. It's so sad. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, sparrow1988 said: Did it happen in Istanbul? I don't remember hearing anything about it. I'll take your word for it unless you produce an article from The Sun. It didn't happen in Istanbul but it did in Athens in 2007. Sky showed footage at the time Though apparently somebody has said it did in Istanbul too Edited June 1, 2022 by Zatman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted June 2, 2022 Share Posted June 2, 2022 I'm sure a few posters will think the kid had it coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted June 2, 2022 Moderator Share Posted June 2, 2022 There was a good article in the metro today thoroughly debunking the French claim about tens of thousands of fans with fake tickets. At least our media has moved on a way since the days of the S*n lying about supporters. Shame some fans of other sides, including ours, haven’t done likewise. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 Sounds like Liverpool fans exonerated after Uefa's apology. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 On 02/06/2022 at 18:34, Davkaus said: I'm sure a few posters will think the kid had it coming. Please stand in line and behave while we pepper spray you otherwise you'll get the baton too French police special 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted June 3, 2022 Share Posted June 3, 2022 16 minutes ago, coda said: Sounds like Liverpool fans exonerated after Uefa's apology. But there was a French statement it was all the Liverpool fans. If you can't trust government officials covering their own arse, despite plenty of evidence they're talking shit, who can you trust. Honestly, the thinly veiled Hillsborough tropes that came out as this was happening was almost as disgusting as the behaviour of the French police. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 (edited) All gone quiet in here. So the Paris police head honcho admits he had literally no reason to think that there were 40,000 fake tickets - it could have been 30,000, or 20,000....Or far, far less than that, as he admitted that actually all he was going on was a handful of reports from officers on the ground - what position were they in to estimate this, especially when there are many examples of them claiming that clearly real tickets were fake? Furthermore, the investigation into what happened has been somewhat hampered by the CCTV footage from the stadium being deleted. Because they didn't ask to keep it. Why would they, eh? It was fairly clear at the time, IMO, and as time goes on, it's increasingly clear that the Parisian police and UEFA were throwing Liverpool fans under the bus to save their own skin, and people were all too keen to lap it up. A useful lesson, I think, that the "official" narrative is only worth so much when those who produce it stand to gain from it being believed. Edited June 9, 2022 by Davkaus 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 1 hour ago, Davkaus said: All gone quiet in here. So the Paris police head honcho admits he had literally no reason to think that there were 40,000 fake tickets - it could have been 30,000, or 20,000....Or far, far less than that, as he admitted that actually all he was going on was a handful of reports from officers on the ground - what position were they in to estimate this, especially when there are many examples of them claiming that clearly real tickets were fake? Furthermore, the investigation into what happened has been somewhat hampered by the CCTV footage from the stadium being deleted. Because they didn't ask to keep it. Why would they, eh? It was fairly clear at the time, IMO, and as time goes on, it's increasingly clear that the Parisian police and UEFA were throwing Liverpool fans under the bus to save their own skin, and people were all too keen to lap it up. A useful lesson, I think, that the "official" narrative is only worth so much when those who produce it stand to gain from it being believed. I heard the CCTV footage was missing. There was no doubt the French police were out of order, but unfortunately the Liverpool fans have a rep, which will be carried with them forever, although I'm certainly not excusing gassing fans randomly. The question needs to be asked why have we not seen no UK media coverage of outside the ground, no figures of arrests. Sky were all over it, interviewing fans, but I haven't seen much you could use in court, since they are already thinking of suing for compensation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts