Kalvin Phillips

[VillaFaninLondon]

We absolutely don't want to go down the MON route, if we're to sign players like Phillips (which incidentally I would be very happy with) we need to be challenging top 6 consistently for the next decade, not getting there for 2 or 3 seasons then selling our players and killing ourselves financially like what happened over 10 years ago. 

 

Fortunately I think our current owners have too much wealth and drive to follow the same route that Lerner did. I also think signing a player like Phillips is completely different to signing a player like Reo Coker (for example) back in the day - Phillips is far more established and fills a hole that desperately needs filling.

 

I still think however the jury is very much out on Gerrard - he speaks a very good game for sure but there's only so many times you can say he needs better players. The role of a manager (or head coach) is to improve the players you have got and I see very little uplift in performance from our big money signings like Bailey, Buendia, Traore, Ings or Watkins - players who have all massively underperformed this season and none of them are suddenly bad players overnight. 

[CVByrne]

12 minutes ago, VillaFaninLondon said:

We absolutely don't want to go down the MON route, if we're to sign players like Phillips (which incidentally I would be very happy with) we need to be challenging top 6 consistently for the next decade, not getting there for 2 or 3 seasons then selling our players and killing ourselves financially like what happened over 10 years ago. 

Fortunately I think our current owners have too much wealth and drive to follow the same route that Lerner did. I also think signing a player like Phillips is completely different to signing a player like Reo Coker (for example) back in the day - Phillips is far more established and fills a hole that desperately needs filling.

I still think however the jury is very much out on Gerrard - he speaks a very good game for sure but there's only so many times you can say he needs better players. The role of a manager (or head coach) is to improve the players you have got and I see very little uplift in performance from our big money signings like Bailey, Buendia, Traore, Ings or Watkins - players who have all massively underperformed this season and none of them are suddenly bad players overnight. 

Seriously!! You'd swear he's had 3 or 4 transfer windows to address the squad and is still harping on about needing better signings the way you're saying it. Oh Gerrard, always complaining about his squad isn't good enough blah blah.

He's had one January window and signed two starting players. It is clear to him and to us he needs a CDM and ball playing CB for his team to progress. That is TWO players. We would likely see a midfielder and a CB leave of those two players were signed. 

Coutinho, Digne, CDM, CB in and out Targett, Traore, Sanson, Hause/Konsa. Replacing players with new players is the way the club now operates.

Edited March 21, 2022 by CVByrne

[VillaFaninLondon]

7 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

Seriously!! You'd swear he's had 3 or 4 transfer windows to address the squad and is still harping on about needing better signings the way you're saying it. Oh Gerrard, always complaining about his squad isn't good enough blah blah.

He's had one January window and signed two starting players. It is clear to him and to us he needs a CDM and ball playing CB for his team to progress. That is TWO players. We would likely see a midfielder and a CB leave of those two players were signed. 

Coutinho, Digne, CDM, CB in and out Targett, Traore, Sanson, Hause/Konsa. Replacing players with new players is the way the club now operates.

I'm happy to see incremental changes and agree we need 1 or 2 big signings this summer (maybe a CF too), but I'm pointing out quite fairly that many of our players' output this season has been well below what it should have been and I don't think it's because they're poor players. 

[paul514]

1 hour ago, VillaParkAvenue said:

Man U have been interested in Phillps before, but they’ve appeared equally interested in McGinn…

Don’t think Arsenal or Spurs would pay 60m for Phillips, it wouldn’t fit their transfer policies to pay that much for a 26-year-old and their fans would likely riot.

For perspective, 60m would make Phillips Spurs’ record signing, and a salary of 10m per year would be almost exactly what they pay Harry Kane.

It's like the difference between buying Van Dyke and Maguire yet people are just saying buy him for those figures 

[paul514]

44 minutes ago, VillaFaninLondon said:

I'm happy to see incremental changes and agree we need 1 or 2 big signings this summer (maybe a CF too), but I'm pointing out quite fairly that many of our players' output this season has been well below what it should have been and I don't think it's because they're poor players. 

No they aren't poor players, it is because they are being played in a stupid formation.

 

[villa4europe]

1 hour ago, paul514 said:

No they aren't poor players, it is because they are being played in a stupid formation.

 

Its because they don't give a **** 2 weeks out of 3

The worry is that it was the same under Smith and nothing has changed, I'm sure in the 5 game run before Smith lost his job we were worse in the league for real simple stats like distance ran and pressing, would be interesting to see where we are now under Gerrard, feels at times like it won't be better 

[TRO]

2 hours ago, maqroll said:

Man Utd, Arse and Spurs would all have interest and European CL sides too.

don't worry, some don't think he's good enough for us.

[paul514]

9 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

Its because they don't give a **** 2 weeks out of 3

The worry is that it was the same under Smith and nothing has changed, I'm sure in the 5 game run before Smith lost his job we were worse in the league for real simple stats like distance ran and pressing, would be interesting to see where we are now under Gerrard, feels at times like it won't be better 

I am certain if we played 4231 we would do better than we are currently.

I am certain if we brought in two DCM's we would be challenging for Europe.

Some of our players I rate very highly.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, paul514 said:

No they aren't poor players, it is because they are being played in a stupid formation.

 

They are being played out of there natural position, by 2 managers......because they didn't have the right players to play.

You can't play offensive players in a defensive role and vice versa......and expect things to be ok.....you might get away with it for the odd game, but for any length of time, it will come home and haunt us.

No formation changes with remedy it.....we should know by now, we have tried enough.

 

[TRO]

2 hours ago, VillaFaninLondon said:

We absolutely don't want to go down the MON route, if we're to sign players like Phillips (which incidentally I would be very happy with) we need to be challenging top 6 consistently for the next decade, not getting there for 2 or 3 seasons then selling our players and killing ourselves financially like what happened over 10 years ago. 

 

Fortunately I think our current owners have too much wealth and drive to follow the same route that Lerner did. I also think signing a player like Phillips is completely different to signing a player like Reo Coker (for example) back in the day - Phillips is far more established and fills a hole that desperately needs filling.

 

I still think however the jury is very much out on Gerrard - he speaks a very good game for sure but there's only so many times you can say he needs better players. The role of a manager (or head coach) is to improve the players you have got and I see very little uplift in performance from our big money signings like Bailey, Buendia, Traore, Ings or Watkins - players who have all massively underperformed this season and none of them are suddenly bad players overnight. 

Buying phillips is not the problem......buying the players we didn't need or not getting anything from is/was the problem.

[VillaParkAvenue]

6 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

Its because they don't give a **** 2 weeks out of 3

The worry is that it was the same under Smith and nothing has changed, I'm sure in the 5 game run before Smith lost his job we were worse in the league for real simple stats like distance ran and pressing, would be interesting to see where we are now under Gerrard, feels at times like it won't be better 

The narrative about players not caring is lazy. That’s like saying the bronze medalist in high jump in the olympics probably just didn’t give a shit, because if he did he’d have won.

Premier League players are watched by a hundred million people every game. If they have a bad game, their careers can be ruined and everything they’ve worked for all their lives. You and I can afford to be lazy at work, they can’t.

Villa players are good or even very good but most don’t quite have league winning talent. The’re not perfectly coached either which makes their jobs more difficult.

[villa4europe]

6 minutes ago, paul514 said:

I am certain if we played 4231 we would do better than we are currently.

I am certain if we brought in two DCM's we would be challenging for Europe.

Some of our players I rate very highly.

Agree on the formation 

The DCM I'm not sure, europe I disagree with

I think because of the media narrative and the enjoyment at their demise arsenal and spurs are now underrated, they're both good teams that cost a lot more than ours and pay a lot more than ours, I don't think we'd have caught them this year which means we can take our time getting the right midfielder, or developing the ones we have 

[villa4europe]

3 minutes ago, VillaParkAvenue said:

The narrative about players not caring is lazy. That’s like saying the bronze medalist in high jump in the olympics probably just didn’t give a shit, because if he did he’d have won.

Premier League players are watched by a hundred million people every game. If they have a bad game, their careers can be ruined and everything they’ve worked for all their lives. You and I can afford to be lazy at work, they can’t.

Villa players are good or even very good but most don’t quite have league winning talent. The’re not perfectly coached either which makes their jobs more difficult.

Like I said when Smith was sacked we were 20th in the league for distance covered and that to me is completely unacceptable and I won't believe that it was a tactic or managerial decision not to run, that is the bare minimum that I would expect

you can say it didn't exist but it does, before Nuno was sacked spurs were 20th, they weren't playing for him 

I don't know what those stats are now but I think football is massively mental and tickling their bollocks to get performances out of them, getting them fired up, convincing them in March that they still have to play at 100% even though the year is over... Last 2 games I don't think that's worked 

[paul514]

38 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

Agree on the formation 

The DCM I'm not sure, europe I disagree with

I think because of the media narrative and the enjoyment at their demise arsenal and spurs are now underrated, they're both good teams that cost a lot more than ours and pay a lot more than ours, I don't think we'd have caught them this year which means we can take our time getting the right midfielder, or developing the ones we have 

I said challenging not, we would finish 6th this year.

I am certain we would have gained another 10 points with a more stable basis of play in a 4231

Edited March 21, 2022 by paul514

[Zatman]

4 hours ago, TRO said:

don't worry, some don't think he's good enough for us.

He isnt

[sir_gary_cahill]

2 hours ago, Zatman said:

He isnt

Why do you say this? I think he’s excellent, he would improve us, I’d pay the £60m or whatever it would take. The whole league would sit up and take notice if we signed him, he’s a class act 

[Davkaus]

Transfer fee aside, I'd not read about the rumoured £10m per year in wages.

Digne on £150k a week, Coutinho on presumably somewhere north of £200k a week, Ings on what £120k a week, and every other new signing looking at these wages and placing themselves in that pecking order, when this time last season, our highest earner was Grealish on £120k. We'll have gone up to 4 players on that or more. How on earth are we planning to keep paying that kind of money within the confines of FFP? Is it Europe or bust?

Edited March 22, 2022 by Davkaus

[CVByrne]

12 hours ago, TRO said:

They are being played out of there natural position, by 2 managers......because they didn't have the right players to play.

You can't play offensive players in a defensive role and vice versa......and expect things to be ok.....you might get away with it for the odd game, but for any length of time, it will come home and haunt us.

No formation changes with remedy it.....we should know by now, we have tried enough.

 

Yes that formation suits the squad we have the best. If we had a Phillips to play beside Luiz in it we'd be a much better side than we are now. 

Though, Gerrard is clear he wants to play the type of football that puts Villa up there among the big 6 consistently. West Ham and Leicester have managed to get among them with a different approach, West Ham with size and constant crosses into the box from wide areas for their big players to score from. Leicester were a lethal counter attacking side. 

Gerrard wants us to be how Arsenal are evolving. Playing possession football, built from the back and dominating games. To press higher up the pitch to turn over the ball and for us to have fast quick passing to create shooting opportunities from central areas. Look at Watkins goal against Southampton to see what I mean about the exact type of goals he wants.

For Gerrard to achieve this he needs the current players to learn this way of playing and for squad additions of players who are already experienced at it or well suited to it. CDM and CB are the two areas most in need of this. Luiz is the only player who is constantly comfortable taking the ball when under pressure and finding a pass. McGinn tries hard but has shown he's not adept at this and likely will never be. Ramsey is so young you can expect him to improve in this area but he needs to be surrounded by players who can do this. Mings has improved significantly in his passing ability as he is the go to CB now for building from the back, despite this not being his natural game. We need that player alongside him who is like Luiz in being as comfortable on the ball and under pressure to play through a press. 

I think Phillips and Bissouma are both excellent passers of the ball, I think Phillips is better as he has an incredible range of pass too so if he is anchor of a midfield 3 or midfield diamond he has passes through and over the press that can get to our attacking players easier than Bissouma. You add Phillips in, Gomez in beside Mings, Luiz moves to 8 and suddenly we've the talent and skill levels there in the 5 to play out from the back consistently.

[nick76]

7 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

Transfer fee aside, I'd not read about the rumoured £10m per year in wages.

Digne on £150k a week, Coutinho on presumably somewhere north of £200k a week, Ings on what £120k a week, and every other new signing looking at these wages and placing themselves in that pecking order, when this time last season, our highest earner was Grealish on £120k. We'll have gone up to 4 players on that or more. How on earth are we planning to keep paying that kind of money within the confines of FFP? Is it Europe or bust?

I think because the owners won’t be content with forever midtableness that they want to try.  When you see the salaries of the European placed teams, if you want to be in the mix you need to be paying those kind of wages.  Then it’s about whether you are paying those kind of wages to the right players. If you don’t pay that level of wages you accept you are going to a be midtable team.

[villa89]

7 hours ago, sir_gary_cahill said:

 I’d pay the £60m or whatever it would take.

£60m?? for Kalvin Phillips...??? No chance.