sharkyvilla Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 I was talking to my colleague about Bissouma as his mate works for Brighton and he was pretty adamant that the charges have been dropped. It seems odd that it wouldn't have been made public but then also odd if we are bidding for him with this hanging over his head. Unless NSWE are OK with taking the gamble and writing off the money. I guess we will find out soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post KentVillan Posted January 10, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted January 10, 2022 6 hours ago, PerryBarrPet said: The legal process is as I set out. In this country a person is innocent until proved guilty. Others may have their doubts and suspicions but these mean little in the eyes of the law. In England we don’t have a ‘not proven’ condition so without a charge and a guilty verdict we are all innocent. I presume you are referring to Ronaldo in your reply. What he did or didn’t do in a totally separate case, Civil or Criminal, is irrelevant to any other case involving other person(s). There is no logic in using one case to infer guilt in another. If there is a no case to answer decision then there is nothing ‘hanging over his head’ other than personal suspicions held by others. I don't understand why people use the standards of the Criminal Courts to decide whether someone is or isn't a bad egg. Those standards are there to set a very high bar, which ideally stops innocent people from going to prison. They're not a guideline to your social interactions and employment decisions, where usually it makes sense to go on the balance of probabilities. Has Keith Lemon ever been convicted of sexual assault? No. Do I think he's a sex pest word removed? Yes. Yes, that's harsh if Bissouma has been falsely accused, but we have no obligation to employ him, and frankly it's an unnecessary risk - both ethically and commercially - to sign someone who's in the middle of a court case like that. Why would we do it? 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Awol Posted January 10, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted January 10, 2022 5 minutes ago, KentVillan said: I don't understand why people use the standards of the Criminal Courts to decide whether someone is or isn't a bad egg. Those standards are there to set a very high bar, which ideally stops innocent people from going to prison. They're not a guideline to your social interactions and employment decisions, where usually it makes sense to go on the balance of probabilities. Has Keith Lemon ever been convicted of sexual assault? No. Do I think he's a sex pest word removed? Yes. Yes, that's harsh if Bissouma has been falsely accused, but we have no obligation to employ him, and frankly it's an unnecessary risk - both ethically and commercially - to sign someone who's in the middle of a court case like that. Why would we do it? Absolutely. Prejudice, rumour, conjecture and suspicion are much stronger foundations for recruiting decisions 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerryBarrPet Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 2 minutes ago, KentVillan said: I don't understand why people use the standards of the Criminal Courts to decide whether someone is or isn't a bad egg. Those standards are there to set a very high bar, which ideally stops innocent people from going to prison. They're not a guideline to your social interactions and employment decisions, where usually it makes sense to go on the balance of probabilities. Has Keith Lemon ever been convicted of sexual assault? No. Do I think he's a sex pest word removed? Yes. Yes, that's harsh if Bissouma has been falsely accused, but we have no obligation to employ him, and frankly it's an unnecessary risk - both ethically and commercially - to sign someone who's in the middle of a court case like that. Why would we do it? You, and anybody else, can decide for yourselves whether a person is a bad egg. This is a value judgement and like all value judgements will vary from person to person - nobody has a Devine right to dictate what is acceptable. In this case it will be for the Villa to decide whether they think a player is a bad egg and proceed - or not - from there (this point has been made previously). I think the use of the legal system is because if found guilty there is no need for a value judgment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 10 minutes ago, Awol said: Absolutely. Prejudice, rumour, conjecture and suspicion are much stronger foundations for recruiting decisions I think an ongoing court case constitutes a lot more than conjecture or suspicion, but even so, yes these are things that are obviously taken into account. Nobody would touch a certain Everton player with a barge pole for example, even though technically he hasn't been convicted of anything yet. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 7 minutes ago, Keyblade said: I think an ongoing court case constitutes a lot more than conjecture or suspicion, but even so, yes these are things that are obviously taken into account. Nobody would touch a certain Everton player with a barge pole for example, even though technically he hasn't been convicted of anything yet. Alex Iwobi really should be charged for impersonating a footballer 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 Ain't nobody buying if there's still a question over the bum pinching (or whatever alledgedly happened). So if we ARE buying - he's not being charged and we can all support him, conscience clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 3 minutes ago, Jareth said: Ain't nobody buying if there's still a question over the bum pinching (or whatever alledgedly happened). So if we ARE buying - he's not being charged and we can all support him, conscience clear. Precisely. The idea the club will make a record signing and cross their fingers as to his criminal liability for ‘X’ is farcical. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Awol said: Absolutely. Prejudice, rumour, conjecture and suspicion are much stronger foundations for recruiting decisions I think you've missed the point - I said "balance of probabilities", which is used in other legal settings, but is a different standard from a criminal case, which is "beyond reasonable doubt". The former doesn't mean relying on rumour and conjecture, it just means not setting an unrealistically high evidential bar for deciding whether someone did something. We use this reasoning all the time when deciding whether to hire people in all lines of work. I don't know why we should suddenly switch to the standards of a criminal court? The point is that we're deciding whether to sign a midfielder, not whether to send him to prison. Not signing him won't take away any liberties or harm him in any way. We can make that decision on even a relatively low suspicion that he's done something wrong. You admit this in your following reply, tbh? Edited January 10, 2022 by KentVillan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Made In Aston Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 1 hour ago, sharkyvilla said: I was talking to my colleague about Bissouma as his mate works for Brighton and he was pretty adamant that the charges have been dropped. It seems odd that it wouldn't have been made public but then also odd if we are bidding for him with this hanging over his head. Unless NSWE are OK with taking the gamble and writing off the money. I guess we will find out soon. According to the mighty Brighton and Hove News he is on conditional bail until 27th January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 1 hour ago, Awol said: Precisely. The idea the club will make a record signing and cross their fingers as to his criminal liability for ‘X’ is farcical. Well I think so too, but doing precisely that is what the existence of this thread is premised on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerryBarrPet Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 11 minutes ago, Made In Aston said: According to the mighty Brighton and Hove News he is on conditional bail until 27th January. Any idea of the conditions? No restriction on overseas travel? No fears of not responding to bail? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 17 minutes ago, KentVillan said: I think you've missed the point - I said "balance of probabilities", which is used in other legal settings, but is a different standard from a criminal case, which is "beyond reasonable doubt". The former doesn't mean relying on rumour and conjecture, it just means not setting an unrealistically high evidential bar for deciding whether someone did something. We use this reasoning all the time when deciding whether to hire people in all lines of work. I don't know why we should suddenly switch to the standards of a criminal court? The point is that we're deciding whether to sign a midfielder, not whether to send him to prison. Not signing him won't take away any liberties or harm him in any way. We can make that decision on even a relatively low suspicion that he's done something wrong. You admit this in your following reply, tbh? Wow, I’m slightly gobsmacked by this and not in a good way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jareth said: Ain't nobody buying if there's still a question over the bum pinching (or whatever alledgedly happened). So if we ARE buying - he's not being charged and we can all support him, conscience clear. Absolutely nothing against you Jareth, but this is the problem with one person saying “what if he just pinched a bum it’s likely as he was in a club and that used to happen all the time” is it has now become a part of the discourse. Edited January 10, 2022 by a m ole 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 I'm confused - i've googled news articles about this, and i can find him being arrested, i can find him being bailed, but nothing about him being charged. So how does someone get bailed when they haven't been charged? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 4 minutes ago, PerryBarrPet said: Any idea of the conditions? No restriction on overseas travel? No fears of not responding to bail? He is currently in Cameroon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 13 minutes ago, a m ole said: Absolutely nothing against you Jareth, but this is the problem with one person saying “what if he just pinched a bum it’s likely as he was in a club and that used to happen all the time” is it has now become a part of the discourse. No problemo sir - was just following on from other posts - no idea exactly what it was he did - if charged with something then for sure we don't need that player - but if the offence is now history and not followed up I suppose we'd have to treat him as anyone else, twas all I was getting at... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 2 minutes ago, Jareth said: No problemo sir - was just following on from other posts - no idea exactly what it was he did - if charged with something then for sure we don't need that player - but if the offence is now history and not followed up I suppose we'd have to treat him as anyone else, twas all I was getting at... Don’t forget he hasn’t actually been charged with anything at any point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 2 hours ago, sharkyvilla said: I was talking to my colleague about Bissouma as his mate works for Brighton and he was pretty adamant that the charges have been dropped. It seems odd that it wouldn't have been made public but then also odd if we are bidding for him with this hanging over his head. Unless NSWE are OK with taking the gamble and writing off the money. I guess we will find out soon. I think that could be the situation. No club are going to gamble that type of money if the police had enough evidence to take to the cps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villabromsgrove Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 44 minutes ago, Made In Aston said: According to the mighty Brighton and Hove News he is on conditional bail until 27th January. This would appear to be incorrect. According to the Brighton and Hove News on January 4th, the man in his forties who was arrested with Bissouma had his bail extended until Jan 27th. But .... Bissouma was released from bail conditions and has no further requirement to report as per bail conditions. That doesn't mean that the matter is no longer under investigation but it perhaps suggests that the guy in his forties is the main focus of any further inquiries. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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