Steven Gerrard

[VillaParkAvenue]

16 minutes ago, Mantis said:

I dunno we genuinely looked completely lost. Gerrard came in and there was a definite uptick. I guess a significant portion of that was a new manager bounce although as I said you could still signs of progression up until about March.

What I don't get is that tactically Gerrard set us up quite well when we went to Palace last season. Yet this season he's gone there with seemingly no idea whatsoever?

In that Palace match when Gerrard was new, he set the team up very defensively. Villa sat back and defended for most of the game, had very little possession. But was more solid defensively.

Now he’s trying to have us play expansive possession football and he doesn’t have a clue how to do it.

[daft]

Like Dan said on Claret & Blue 'I want to look as stupid as the Arsenal fans in the first episode of All or Nothing'. It reminded med they were complaining about the exact same thing we do.

Issue is, the docu-drama paints Arteta as competent, intelligent and like person with a plan. 

[DCJonah]

41 minutes ago, Mantis said:

Based on what? This is pure conjecture with no actual evidence for it beyond the fact that Gerrard and Purslow knew each other at Liverpool.

Once again, sacking Smith was absolutely the right decision, the problem was who we got to replace him.

I think it was pretty clear. The way Purslow has spoken about him in the past. The links Gerrard was starting to get to English jobs. And the fact it was the first proper bad spell with all the issues surrounding it and we weren't prepared to give any chance to turn it round. 

[DCJonah]

27 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

I think the 5 game run in itself looked a lot worse than it was. The argument I could understand was 2021 as a whole was not up to scratch but that 5 game streak, it happens. Gerrard had a 4 game one himself. Don't think we'd have had any relegation worries once the squad got fully fit again. I pegged us for finishing 12th-14th back then. 

The idea we were going down was laughable. 

Our new signings never had the chance to play together. 

[Mantis]

4 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

And yet we still finished with 55 pts and 11th. And like I said, plenty of issues at the start of the season that people ignore. 

Mostly because of the excellent start. Our form from the beginning of the year onwards was average/poor. Not much better than the level we've been under Gerrard.

[Giro]

The Scouse Tim sherwood 

[nick76]

 

[KentVillan]

14 minutes ago, Mantis said:

Doesn't seem clear at all to me, and thinks had been bad under Smith for basically the whole of 2021.

Just not true. Everyone casually overlooks us beating Spurs and Chelsea last two games of 2020/21, and then beating Man Utd at Old Trafford early 2021/22.

Smith was a far better manager than Gerrard. He should have been replaced at the end of the season with an elite manager.

Instead we dumped him suddenly because Purslow had a hard on for an unproven SPL winner.

[DCJonah]

9 minutes ago, Mantis said:

Mostly because of the excellent start. Our form from the beginning of the year onwards was average/poor. Not much better than the level we've been under Gerrard.

Still beat spurs and Chelsea to end the season and again you ignore arguably the worst covid outbreak in the league. 

[Mantis]

1 minute ago, KentVillan said:

Just not true. Everyone casually overlooks us beating Spurs and Chelsea last two games of 2020/21, and then beating Man Utd at Old Trafford early 2021/22.

Smith was a far better manager than Gerrard. He should have been replaced at the end of the season with an elite manager.

Instead we dumped him suddenly because Purslow had a hard on for an unproven SPL winner.

Once again, no real evidence for this.

Of course this isn't a defence of Gerrard who I'd sack now if I could, just pointing out that the Smith revisionism on here is weird.

[Lerner's Driver]

It's time.

[VillaChris]

19 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

I think it was pretty clear. The way Purslow has spoken about him in the past. The links Gerrard was starting to get to English jobs. And the fact it was the first proper bad spell with all the issues surrounding it and we weren't prepared to give any chance to turn it round. 

Don't forget the new owners initially wanted Henry aswell before they were steered towards DS. Think the rumours were they wanted a coach with worldwide appeal so we could market the club more easily so I get the feeling they were pretty happy for Purslow to pursue his Gerrard fanboy act.

Now we've hopefully learnt a harsh lesson and the trick now is to find a worldwide known coach who can actuallly improve us on the training ground.

[Rightdm00]

2 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

Just not true. Everyone casually overlooks us beating Spurs and Chelsea last two games of 2020/21, and then beating Man Utd at Old Trafford early 2021/22.

Smith was a far better manager than Gerrard. He should have been replaced at the end of the season with an elite manager.

Instead we dumped him suddenly because Purslow had a hard on for an unproven SPL winner.

I still remember the first time someone posted Steven's name in the new manager thread. Purslow had gotten the Dean appointment so right I thought no way would he follow it up with a complete hope and a prayer. 

Still don't understand his thinking. Then giving Steven the purse strings. None of it makes sense. It was all going so well, how did we end up here. 

[Mantis]

And that's the problem, once Grealish left for good we looked naff under Smith, just like we now look naff under Gerrard. I still don't think we've properly adjusted to him leaving.

Edited August 20, 2022 by Mantis

[KentVillan]

2 minutes ago, Mantis said:

Once again, no real evidence for this.

Of course this isn't a defence of Gerrard who I'd sack now if I could, just pointing out that the Smith revisionism on here is weird.

What evidence do you need? A time machine that takes you into Purslow’s office at the specific moment all this shite happened? Or can we just go with Purslow’s statements about Smith and Gerrard, the stories about Purslow and Gerrard at Liverpool, and the way Gerrard has spoken about the move?

It’s not “revisionism”, it’s what I thought at the time, and said on here, and then we had all the chin strokers and “I’m older than you” crowd saying BUT Gerrard is a winner, he’ll instil a winning mentality. It was so **** obviously wrong because they’re always **** wrong about everything.

[Mantis]

Just now, KentVillan said:

What evidence do you need? A time machine that takes you into Purslow’s office at the specific moment all this shite happened? Or can we just go with Purslow’s statements about Smith and Gerrard, the stories about Purslow and Gerrard at Liverpool, and the way Gerrard has spoken about the move?

It’s not “revisionism”, it’s what I thought at the time, and said on here, and then we had all the chin strokers and “I’m older than you” crowd saying BUT Gerrard is a winner, he’ll instil a winning mentality. It was so **** obviously wrong because they’re always **** wrong about everything.

I'm not disputing that Purslow wanted Gerrard, just that him wanting Gerrard played a part in the decision to sack Smith. It implies that if Purslow had no connection to Gerrard we would've stuck with Smith longer and I don't buy that at all.

And again I'm not defending Gerrard? He's woeful.

[KentVillan]

Just now, Mantis said:

I'm not disputing that Purslow wanted Gerrard, just that him wanting Gerrard played a part in the decision to sack Smith. It implies that if Purslow had no connection to Gerrard we would've stuck with Smith longer and I don't buy that at all.

And again I'm not defending Gerrard? He's woeful.

I think the move only makes sense if Purslow had lined Gerrard up in advance. Otherwise, with the money we had, we would have either brought in a better coach, or given Smith a fighting fund in January.

The sensible approach was to do what Brighton did with Hughton, give him a whole season and then do a proper search for a replacement around the end of the season so new coach can come in and have a whole summer.

More managers are available in the summer. Unless we really thought Smith was going to get us relegated (which nobody in their right mind did) then what was the benefit of narrowing our options?

[DCJonah]

4 minutes ago, Mantis said:

I'm not disputing that Purslow wanted Gerrard, just that him wanting Gerrard played a part in the decision to sack Smith. It implies that if Purslow had no connection to Gerrard we would've stuck with Smith longer and I don't buy that at all.

And again I'm not defending Gerrard? He's woeful.

I think that's exactly the case. 

First proper bad spell. No chance to use big money signings. He deserved more time. The only reason to not do that is if you think you can get someone you think is better. 

I 100% believe Purslow sees Gerrard as the next big thing in management and wanted to get him before another team did.

[skarroki]

15 minutes ago, Mantis said:

Once again, no real evidence for this.

Of course this isn't a defence of Gerrard who I'd sack now if I could, just pointing out that the Smith revisionism on here is weird.

I'd find "revisionism" of the Smith era weird but I find it more odd how a few on here are so keen to stick the boot into Smith to try and balance out the fans that still look back fondly. Edit: not saying you're doing this, just something I've noticed over the last 12 months on the site. 

Smith inherited a squad that had absolutely no right to be in the play-offs with the way they were playing under Bruce, got us promoted, rebuilt the entire squad and kept us up, then got us a points total that should have seen us finish top half with a squad decimated by covid and with a fixture pile-up end of season. Poor form second half of 2021 season was due to illness, injury and burnout otherwise we'd have been looking at cracking top 7. 

He then had to deal with arguably the best player I've seen wear a Villa shirt leaving, and the people brought in to replace him and improve the squad all taking it in turns on the injury table.

That 5 loss streak did it for me in the end and I thought he had to go, but looking back, we were the better side at Wolves and completely collapsed and the Southampton game was woeful with the team on their knees. But losing to West Ham, Arsenal and Spurs was nothing to cry about and frankly the way we play under Gerrard since March I'd expect him to drag us to 5 losses in a row with that line-up of games. 

 

I don't think Gerrard is really worse or better than Smith. I just have a tonne of respect for Smith, he handles himself well and comes across a genuine bloke who's done wonders for this club. Gerrard comes across a knobhead who already thinks he's better than this club. 

We need to really upgrade with someone who gets more than the sum of the parts of the squad. I can't really see past Potter tbh I just think he'd completely transform us. 

Side-note in defence of Gerrard: I don't think you can overlook our bloated and unbalanced squad in all of this too. Buendia, Coutinho and Bailey all suit different tactics imo and it's amazing to have that quality at the club but honestly, we need to pick a style of play and get players that can fit, otherwise we're wasting talent and ruining player values and wasting wages. 

Edited August 20, 2022 by skarroki

[Bazmonkey]

1 hour ago, foreveryoung said:

Aren't good enough to beat, Bournemouth, Brighton, Palace, Brentford.

I know we have blamed the players before, but they are on the level of the above teams at least. It's on the manager this time 100%. You have already said Gerrard is learning his trade, this is the problem, you cannot do that in the Premier League, not a chance!!

Absolutely...you can't learn your trade...in reply to the being on the same level....yes we are in which case will we lose a few games against these same level teams as they will fancy their chances against us and we against them...that puts us in 13th 14th 15th bracket.

Over the past three seasons we have won a few...and lost a few so thats our level.

Gerrard has made mistakes...selection....mainly formation...and is learning his trade....at the same time so are the players..many have come from lesser leagues across Europe....even here in championship or Scotland...but like I say...we have had Bruce....Smith and Gerrard...some of these players may have had all three (correct me if I'm wrong) but at least two amd we still see the same mistakes or lack of improvement...thats not Gerrard fault...some are just not good enough....along with the manager