Steven Gerrard

[hippo]

11 minutes ago, duke313 said:

Would be interesting to know how many fans are actually not on board with SG being manager, rather than a few people commenting on an Aston Villa fan forum?

No way of knowing I suppose.

But you have to ask yourself on fans not on VT likely to be radically different to the views on here ?

Let's be honest Stevie G said on appointment he knows hes not popular with villa fans 

And Stevie Gs claret and blue army chant flounders pretty quickly at VP.

Not scientific or conclusive of course.

[villa4europe]

16 minutes ago, duke313 said:

Would be interesting to know how many fans are actually not on board with SG being manager, rather than a few people commenting on an Aston Villa fan forum?

i wouldnt say im not on board id just say a bit of apathy has crept back in

the buzz around us has dropped off for me

[MaVilla]

1 hour ago, pacbuddies said:

4 defeats on the spin and he's almost in Smith territory without the goodwill of fans following a promotion.

if you are actually claiming Gerrard (after 20 games and no summer window(s) at all), is in the same position as Smith (after 3 years and 350m spent)..............

Im not pro or anti Gerrard, but some of the anti Gerrard rhetoric on here is laughable.

Edited April 12, 2022 by MaVilla

[DCJonah]

2 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

i wouldnt say im not on board id just say a bit of apathy has crept back in

the buzz around us has dropped off for me

Same. I think he should have next season, talk of sacking him is premature. 

But, after seeing very little improvement, even with some big January signings, I'm even more disappointed that we moved on from Smith for this. I'm not anti Gerrard or against him, I was excited about him getting the job. But I expected to see something that encouraged me. I just haven't really seen it yet. 

[Zatman]

1 minute ago, MaVilla said:

if you are actually claiming Gerrard (after 20 games and no summer window(s) at all), is in the same position as Smith (after 3 years and 350m spent)..............

Im not pro or anti Gerrard, but some of the anti Gerrard rhetoric here is laughable.

Why is Gerrard always compared to Smith? Why not compare him to Sherwood who had a similar record

[blandy]

Please stay on topic. Nice as the Liverpool 7-2 was, it's got now't to do with Steven Gerrard. Thanks.

[The_Steve]

1 hour ago, jacketspuds said:

It’s a silly notion, but maybe it takes a little bit of time to get up to speed in a new job.

Arsenal fans were calling for Arteta, who had less experience than Gerrard, to be sacked when things weren’t going well at the start of his tenure.

Now he has had the opportunity to bring in his own players, weed out the ones that can’t do what he wants them to do, and progress.

We need to give Gerrard the chance to do the same thing.

Saying that, it will be interesting to see what happens to him if we lose something like 4 or 5 of our remaining games though.

 

100% this 

[CVByrne]

I think you have to look at this teams record over the last three seasons and factor in how we had a purple patch after the first lock down and then the start of last season. A huge amount of that was we had a talent like Grealish who was instrumental in our attack and we could play counter attacking football well. We had a 6 / 4 split defense to attack because of Grealish playing outstanding football. We had two holding midfielders screening the defence and a flat back 4. Martinez was also in sensational form.

Losing Grealish first to injury and then permanently was and is a setback. We aimed to replace him and Barkley with Bailey and Buendia while adding a much needed second Striker in Ings. Dean wanted the tactical flexibility of managers like Bielsa, Potter etc.. who can play 3 CBs or 2 depending on how they want to set up. 

Ultimately the failure to get the new central midfilder in we desperately needed we had injury issues too and a disrupted pre season (injuries to Buendia, Watkins, Bailey, Traore, Targett and Luiz at Olympics) when Dean needed to get the players used to eachother and new systems. We had to start with Young and AEG in our attack at Watford. 

Then Gerrard comes in and wants to play a significantly different system to the ones Dean had success with and the three at the back they had learnt during the season. The full backs having to be very far forward in attack forgoing defensive duties which are now shifted to the two 8s Ramsey and McGinn who need to learn. Luiz left with a massive responsibility in central role where he isn't suited to. 

Then the two 10s system had Watkins playing as a 10 or then as the lone striker tasked with quick movement, fast interplay and finishing off chances. A drastic departure from playing with wide players and a goal scoring 10 like he was last season when at his best where he can press and chase and run into space with direct balls to him in counter attacks

Then to the Centre Backs. Tasked with building up play from the back slowly with passing and working through midfield and not to look for the quick counter attack balls. I feel the most for Luiz, Konsa and Mings under Gerrard. So much new asked of them and to do that with even less defensive cover than they had before. 

I think Gerrard should be criticised for being naive thinking he could make such huge changes to how the team play with a squad assembled for wide forwards with a counter attacking philosophy and clear 3 at the back or a double pivot required due to a lack of a capable CDM. The results that have ensued should have been expected as opposition worked out how to counter the two 10s and expose us defensively in the centre. 

It still needs to be said the team with the exception of those months at the end of 2020 has shown itself to be mid table. Incapable of consistency and with a lack of belief especially when conceding first. Dean and Gerrard both experiencing this. 

I think there have been positive things about how Gerrard wants to play and in the moments where the team have implemented the plan on the pitch. I think a significant uptick in performances and results will come when a CDM and CB capable of fulfillment of the roles required are signed. A centre forward who is clinical and can operate in the two 10s system and as part of a front 2 with Watkins is also key. That can inject a new spine to the team 

I do still worry about Gerrards tactics as he remains a lone wolf in the Premier League with regards such attacking fullbacks in a back 4 and no inside forwards instead two 10s or two  CFs. It requires an absolutely elite Midfield 3 to pull it off, especially CDM. 

There is enough to be hopeful new signings and a full preseason can see significant improvement. I am worried about how our poor form will impact on the decisions of potential targets. If we had shown a clear improvement under Gerrard and pushed for 8th place and a PPG to put us in top 7 then we might get a Phillips or Bissouma etc..

The system and the ability to attract players are my two main worries going into the summer. An end of season slump would increase my worries about both.

Edited April 12, 2022 by CVByrne

[Keyblade]

7 hours ago, Anything11 said:

Because Smith had been here for years with plenty of money spent on his team.

Also by your logic what is so special about Klopp when he needed to spend big on Van Dijk and others when he came in? Or Pep and the millions spent there?

 

Uhh he was Jurgen **** Klopp, one of the best managers in world football who had proven himself at Dortmund?

[sparrow1988]

Just now, Keyblade said:

Uhh he was Jurgen **** Klopp, one of the best managers in world football who had proven himself at Dortmund?

Some people, eh?

[Woody1000]

1 hour ago, WakefieldVillan said:

Although I never wanted to get rid of Smith, I was quite happy with the appointment of Gerrard.  I thought he did a good job at Rangers and although it was a gamble (aren't all new managers) I think his winning mentality was maybe what this club needs, he comes across well with the media and his "profile" meant we were able to sign a world class player in Coutinho. 

I am disappointed with recent results, I am a little concerned with the one formation he wants us to play - with what appears to be no plan B, I don't think our squad is suited for this style of play.  I have been disappointed with Digne (but that's maybe for another thread - but it's a Gerrard signing), I would like to see more game time for Chuk and Tim. I think a few of the players should have been dropped but haven't (McGinn, Luiz, Watkins) and some have been unlucky to be dropped (Chambers, Buendia, Sanson). I think losing Nakamba when he was having his best spell at the club was a huge loss to how we play in this system. 

We have Norwich, Palace and Burnley at VP and I really want and expect us to get 9 points from them games. But unless we have a complete disaster end to the season I think we need to give him till next December. Give him a pre-season, let him bring in the players he wants and turf out the ones he doesn't. I know it's a results industry but I think it's absolutely ridiculous that people are even thinking of sacking him at this stage. 

With the exception of Digne who I think has had some terrible luck since signing, that is where I am pretty much word for word. Great post WV!

[Dale]

1 hour ago, MaVilla said:

Smith (after 3 years and 350m spent).......

The club spent the money, Smith contributed his thoughts. 

I think this a massive cop out for Gerrard, being a coach isn't about wheeler dealer-ing now. It's about maximising what you've got. The club should be deciding transfer strategies and creating a balanced squad that can be picked up by a new coach at any time successfully - there's a damn good chance that Gerrard won't last a full season here, that's the very nature of football in this league. It's why no club in their right mind should give a coach carte blanche over recruitment.

Of course he'll have an influence, but his job is to get the best out of what he's got, not to drop by Harvey Nicholls and pick up whatever footballer is loitering around that he likes the look of. The club need to ensure that its a squad that isn't stuck in the mould of a setup that whoever follows won't play. 

[Zatman]

4 minutes ago, Dale said:

The club spent the money, Smith contributed his thoughts. 

I think this a massive cop out for Gerrard, being a coach isn't about wheeler dealer-ing now. It's about maximising what you've got. The club should be deciding transfer strategies and creating a balanced squad that can be picked up by a new coach at any time successfully - there's a damn good chance that Gerrard won't last a full season here, that's the very nature of football in this league. It's why no club in their right mind should give a coach carte blanche over recruitment.

Of course he'll have an influence, but his job is to get the best out of what he's got, not to drop by Harvey Nicholls and pick up whatever footballer is loitering around that he likes the look of. The club need to ensure that its a squad that isn't stuck in the mould of a setup that whoever follows won't play. 

Harvey Nicholls is code for Anfield

[TRO]

12 hours ago, Keyblade said:

I'm not even looking at the results. We're just not a better team than the one that started the season, despite the squad being much healthier and adding Lucas Digne and Philippe **** Coutinho on top of it. 

I thought the point of hiring a new manager was to improve the existing team? If he needs 100's of million + time, then what was the point? You could have given the previous guy 100's of million + time.

I mean, I agree with what you're saying here but I just think it's funny that all this nuance is coming out now, when start of the season it was Europe or bust (not you in particular).

I backed him from the start, and still do ,so guilty as charged, look, its not going at all well, I can't deny that.....but I happen to think the deep rooted problems we all thought could be fixed by a new manager alone, can't.

Some of the best managers on the Planet, couldn't fix the great Man U with all their resources.

Lucas Digne and Phil.... was not going to fix the deep rooted problems that need fixing.....yes, top players and yes, strange signings in some ways, would be interesting to know the clubs reasoning on that.

I can can think of rakes of managers employed to improve teams and with surgery, can't.......There is a limit to what managers can do without the necessary change in personnel.

The previous guy was given £100 mill and bought Buendia, Ings and Bailey....now I don't know how much input he had, so I am not pointing my finger soley at him.

But surely you can see that the chances are SG will have more pull on a player than DS?

Europe to me, was always pie in the sky, while we have this squad....We put too much store, in to some of the players, such is how emotional investment, plays out, with some.

If you analyse down the last game, there are some very positive moments and some very good football played in the first half.....equally the defending, particularly in the air and positional play was low,low grade.....The season as whole has been poor under 2 managers, who I happen to think both are not as bad as the results have shown....However, managers are the only ones to change things, so they have to be responsible....I don't see SG showing any signs that he is not, in all his interviews he says " Its on me".....I think this run is killing him, as it is us.

I actually thought we was worse against Wolves, despite the scoreline being less.

I happen to think much of our deep rooted problem has been hanging around for 2-3 seasons now and that is going to take much more than a few tactical changes and a system review....However, under the circumstances, if find playing attacking full backs /wing backs naive, we simply haven't got the resillience or robust players in midfield to play it.

The team that started the season was torn apart by a spirited Watford, where Sarr probably had his best game of the season, once again.....SG was brought in to halt the slide of 5 consecutive defeats and he did.....He has presided over some good games, but the defeats, so easily executed, just keep coming.....our defence and I mean the whole team, is shocking, and yes, I thought he would do better in shoring it up, but I was wrong.

I don't think he will fail ....but like Frank at Everton, they have big jobs on to reshape these teams and make them harder to beat.

I also think making snide remarks and cheap shots at him, while he is searching for answers, is hardly classed as support....( not aimed directly at you)....If he turns it around, he would be entitled to say, I'm off....you wasn't there for me when I needed you.

[Keyblade]

1 hour ago, DCJonah said:

Same. I think he should have next season, talk of sacking him is premature. 

But, after seeing very little improvement, even with some big January signings, I'm even more disappointed that we moved on from Smith for this. I'm not anti Gerrard or against him, I was excited about him getting the job. But I expected to see something that encouraged me. I just haven't really seen it yet. 

It was there in the first few games. The one touch football. Going toe to toe with City at VP, and with United at OT. It was exciting, but looking back, it seemed to have been the famous new manager bounce because we've rarely seen much of that since January.

[IrishVilla10]

3 hours ago, hippo said:

Couple of differences with Arteta though.

He has promoted several youth prospects to first team duties. With a view to the longer term.

He is probably already at his dream job. He doesn't have his eye on the next move upwards.

We've seen Tommi O’Reilly brought to the first team. Signed Kerr Smith. Tim Irogbunham new contract. Pushing for Carney new contract. Carney minutes as sub.  

Edited April 12, 2022 by blandy
discussion of Arsenal's players removed

[DCJonah]

17 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

It was there in the first few games. The one touch football. Going toe to toe with City at VP, and with United at OT. It was exciting, but looking back, it seemed to have been the famous new manager bounce because we've rarely seen much of that since January.

I agree there were moments. But nothing I hadn't seen from under Smith. It wasn't that long ago we went toe to toe with Chelsea at their place and deserved the win at Old Trafford. I don't think we do anything better under Gerrard than what we've seen in moments this season and last. 

For me, if you change manager because you want to progress then that's got to be evident. Especially when you have arguably the strongest January window in the league. 

[lapal_fan]

I think it comes down to two ways of looking at it.

We stick with Gerrard, and his system and buy the players in order to get success out of it.

Or,

We ditch Gerrard and his system (which he won't change because he's a Roger-ite) and get a manager who changes his set-up depending on the team we're playing. 

There doesn't appear to be any middle ground. 

[nick76]

37 minutes ago, TRO said:

If he turns it around, he would be entitled to say, I'm off....you wasn't there for me when I needed you.

To be fair he was going to be off even if the whole fan base worshipped him.  We know this is purely a business arrangement with Gerrard and that’s fine because both parties were aware of it from the start whether openly or just knowingly.

That part doesn’t bother me because if he’s successful and he’s off, we in theory are left in a good place.  I do admit it’s probably why I give him less leash, like now, when things aren’t working because it is more of a business transaction whereas Smith was family.  Smith probably got too much leash whereas Gerrard gets a shorter leash.  Is that fair? Don’t know, just the way it is.

[nick76]

6 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

I think it comes down to two ways of looking at it.

We stick with Gerrard, and his system and buy the players in order to get success out of it.

Or,

We ditch Gerrard and his system (which he won't change because he's a Roger-ite) and get a manager who changes his set-up depending on the team we're playing. 

There doesn't appear to be any middle ground. 

Honestly there is only one way, the first one because Purslow won’t even be thinking of the second one so it’s purely a hypothetical.