Dwight McNeil

[TH]

55 minutes ago, tezzaleed said:

I hadn't checked but it doesn't surprise me he has so many assists he has quality delivery and thinking about it Burnley rely heavily on set pieces.

Having read this, it makes sense he would be someone of interest. Our set piece deliveries and free kicks have been lacking in quality this season.

[gwi1890]

1 hour ago, Zatman said:

as many assists in the league as Phil Foden and James Maddison who didnt play for a team like Burnley

On par with Mcginn and one assist less than Traore 

[Texas_Mike]

I don't know if he would be a good signing or not but people are losing sight of what Villa has to do to become successful. We cannot buy and are not looking to buy the finished product. The cost is too much and we (right now) are not an attractive proposition to someone wanting Europe competition. What we are doing is buying potential and developing them into much better and ultimately more expensive players. Whether we end up selling or keeping we need to buy low and end up with a high value player. Need I say ... Konsa, Cash, Mings, Ollie, etc. If we make top 4 that approach may change but for now we are not a Man City. 

Given that then McNeil fits the profile. If he dramatically improves like we have managed with recent signings then we will have a great buy on our hands, move up the table and have a player worth 2 or 3 times what we paid. If he fails and you know some will then we move him on. I say don't look at what someone has done recently look at what they might be capable of in 2 years time.

[zab6359]

2 hours ago, sne said:

For the reported price of £40m-£50m?

No!

But tbh I don't think he'd cost that much. I'd be happy if we were to bring him in I was really impressed with him the 19/20 season and think he would develop a lot under our coaching staff. But I see him as a £20m-£30m player you will always pay a premium on established PL players so probably closer to £30m I guess, he hasn't done enough to justify a higher price.

 

[PaulC]

I don't think we would get him for 20 -30 million. Watkins cost more than that from the championship. 30-40 million is  my guess. 

[Jas10]

19 minutes ago, Texas_Mike said:

I don't know if he would be a good signing or not but people are losing sight of what Villa has to do to become successful. We cannot buy and are not looking to buy the finished product. The cost is too much and we (right now) are not an attractive proposition to someone wanting Europe competition. What we are doing is buying potential and developing them into much better and ultimately more expensive players. Whether we end up selling or keeping we need to buy low and end up with a high value player. Need I say ... Konsa, Cash, Mings, Ollie, etc. If we make top 4 that approach may change but for now we are not a Man City. 

Given that then McNeil fits the profile. If he dramatically improves like we have managed with recent signings then we will have a great buy on our hands, move up the table and have a player worth 2 or 3 times what we paid. If he fails and you know some will then we move him on. I say don't look at what someone has done recently look at what they might be capable of in 2 years time.

I don’t think many are losing sight of that, that is the strategy but they still need to be good enough to make an impact and upgrade us as last summer’s signings did.

McNeil doesn’t fit the profile/strategy if Burnley are not going to entertain offers less than £40m+.

Similarly to Pope, why would they sell their greatest assets on the cheap? They don’t need to sell and would want to progress with these players unless they demand a move away, and they will still get huge fees for them…

Tarkowski has been a target for several clubs but the asking price is massive…

They have a new owner (& better finances) who has come out and stated that he will be backing the manager in the transfer market, they want to improve/progress too so none of their players will be available for a value or bargain deal…

I hope we look elsewhere, there is better value, quality and higher potential elsewhere…

 

Comments by Dyche:

“It’s not a case that clubs just make a call," said Dyche when discussing the future of Pope, and Tarkowski and Dwight McNeil. 

"There was a time during my time at Burnley that eventually players had to be sold to balance out the situation and safeguard the future.

 

“The future is safeguarded, the immediate future particularly, by the finances in the club. 

“Eventually every player has their price and you’ve seen some astronomical fees paid for people. 

“The difference is we’re not having to sell. If we sell it will be a decision made for different reasons than would have been the case four or five years ago.

“In the past we sold players, but now we can consider trading. We’re not in a position that we have to.

"There would have to be alignment of all the parties involved to consider it to be the right deal and that right deal is according to Burnley Football Club and not anyone else.

That’s because of how the club is run and it’s in good shape financially, even with what’s going on with the Covid situation. 

“We’re just in a stronger position to resist temptation of sales, but equally we’re still a club that eventually sells players.”
 

Burnley are under new owners after ALK Capital LLC completed their takeover of the club on New Year's Eve and chairman Alan Pace has said there is money available to spend with his aim to strengthen the squad rather than weaken it.
 

How confident are you that you can retain McNeil, Pope and Tarkowski?

"As confident as ever. We have changed as a club and are financially in very good shape. We can make sure we can safeguard as many situations as possible but equally the club has sold players in the past and if a player is sold that will be part of the balance.

"The balance is investing in the right players and at some point players being sold.

"There is a balance to the finance but I know we are in good shape as a club but all the details are for the chief exec and the chairman to talk about."

[MotoMkali]

11 hours ago, Kiwivillan said:

Grealish goal involvement massively come from LW not CAM

He has a far higher assist rate through the centre. And I don't believe that his goals would actually decrease when playing CAM. He typically goes on goal scoring streaks then doesn't score for a while. It is just that those streaks haven't coincided with him playing CAM yet. 

[zab6359]

41 minutes ago, Texas_Mike said:

I don't know if he would be a good signing or not but people are losing sight of what Villa has to do to become successful. We cannot buy and are not looking to buy the finished product. The cost is too much and we (right now) are not an attractive proposition to someone wanting Europe competition. What we are doing is buying potential and developing them into much better and ultimately more expensive players. Whether we end up selling or keeping we need to buy low and end up with a high value player. Need I say ... Konsa, Cash, Mings, Ollie, etc. If we make top 4 that approach may change but for now we are not a Man City. 

Given that then McNeil fits the profile. If he dramatically improves like we have managed with recent signings then we will have a great buy on our hands, move up the table and have a player worth 2 or 3 times what we paid. If he fails and you know some will then we move him on. I say don't look at what someone has done recently look at what they might be capable of in 2 years time.

He exactly fits the profile of the type of player we want bring in..........but only at the right price he's no where near a £40m player at 21 yrs old (not sure where that figure has come from though tbh) 

Tarkowski is a little different he is a quality CB that would improve most PL defences but that said he is now 28 so opposite end of the spectrum to McNeil. 

[KangarooVillan]

5 hours ago, Jas10 said:

Conversely, shouldn’t he have more assists when he’s being relied on to supply big target men like Wood & Barnes?

If he’s their main creative force then his stats impress even less. The main thing that stands out about him is he has age on his side.

I can see the appeal of signing him for some, young with potential being the most relevant point. But I would not want us to pay more than 15-20m for that when our budget/funds could be better utilised imo. And Burnley would want at least 40m, I suspect. They don’t need to sell him & value him highly. I think that would be a huge waste. Would he really be any better than our existing wingers or attacking players? Or offer more of a contribution? I really don’t see it… it doesn’t strike me as an ambitious or exciting signing. 

We already have the youngest squad and promising youngsters coming through so I would personally prefer a higher class of signing that can genuinely elevate us such as the signings of Martinez & Watkins did. We need players almost comparable to Jack’s level - maybe not quite the same attributes but a similar level of impact and efficiency - if we genuinely want to take another big step forward in our progress and standing next season and lessen our reliance on him.

One way of looking at things is, if we want to fight for top 6/8, is would some of the players we have (e.g. Nakamba) and some of the players we’re allegedly targeting (e.g. McNeil) get into and consistently perform in those first 11s? With those examples, I don’t see it at all so we need better…

Not when Burnley only scores 20 goals from open play all season...

He literally scored 10% and assisted a further 25% of their goals from open play.

I know you think Buendia is class, but what’s the reasoning? As I mentioned last time, McNeil has the same or better PL stats but is younger and has done it for longer?

[MotoMkali]

5 minutes ago, KangarooVillan said:

Not when Burnley only scores 20 goals from open play all season...

He literally scored 10% and assisted a further 25% of their goals from open play.

I know you think Buendia is class, but what’s the reasoning? As I mentioned last time, McNeil has the same or better PL stats but is younger and has done it for longer?

Buendia had what 1 and 7 in the prem which is better than McNeil.

I personally don't rate Buendia but McNeil would be a god awful signing. 

[Jas10]

Just now, KangarooVillan said:

Not when Burnley only scores 20 goals from open play all season...

He literally scored 10% and assisted a further 25% of their goals from open play.

I know you think Buendia is class, but what’s the reasoning? As I mentioned last time, McNeil has the same or better PL stats but is younger and has done it for longer?

Technically superior player, exciting and looks like he could become a real star, one of the most creative players that is attainable, skilful, tenacious, determined, excellent passing range. 
 

I don’t think just looking at stats and numbers is the best way to judge & compare players but Buendia has been performing so well anyway. I know you’ve compared their stats whilst in the PL but could you really see McNeil having so many goals and assists (yes, in the Championship but he has been one of the best players and best performing players in that league for a while) in that Norwich side? And he was also one of the most creative players, stats wise, when he had that season in the PL. Not his fault if he was playing with poor, inferior players.

If Buendia had been playing in the PL for a long as McNeil and in a more established or superior side then I’m confident that he would’ve exceeded his stats - dribbles, goals, assists, even defensive actions.

Regardless of all that, from what I’ve seen of both players, I see Buendia as a much superior and more technically gifted player with more to offer and contribute.

[KangarooVillan]

1 minute ago, MotoMkali said:

Buendia had what 1 and 7 in the prem which is better than McNeil.

I personally don't rate Buendia but McNeil would be a god awful signing. 

McNeil had 2 and 6 in 2019/20 and 3 and 5 from 21 games in 2018/19.

[Jareth]

2 minutes ago, MotoMkali said:

McNeil would be a god awful signing. 

[Tomaszk]

2 hours ago, sne said:

For the reported price of £40m-£50m?

That's how much young PL British players are going to cost these days I think. I actually think they'd want more tbh. £60m or something.

Brexit has fudged the old unheard of foreign gems from minor leagues. If Brentford started their journey and methodology in L1 today they'd have an absolute nightmare doing it as quickly as they have.

Mahrez, Kante, Benrahma, Mbuemo and Maupay just a few of the names who likely wouldn't be allowed to sign for a L1/Championship side at the moment.

McNeil is great IMO. It's not my money, so I'm not that fussed about cost if it's a position we need and a player I rate.

[KangarooVillan]

2 minutes ago, Jas10 said:

Technically superior player, exciting and looks like he could become a real star, one of the most creative players that is attainable, skilful, tenacious, determined, excellent passing range. 
 

I don’t think just looking at stats and numbers is the best way to judge & compare players but Buendia has been performing so well anyway. I know you’ve compared their stats whilst in the PL but could you really see McNeil having so many goals and assists (yes, in the Championship but he has been one of the best players and best performing players in that league for a while) in that Norwich side? And he was also one of the most creative players, stats wise, when he had that season in the PL. Not his fault if he was playing with poor, inferior players.

If Buendia had been playing in the PL for a long as McNeil and in a more established or superior side then I’m confident that he would’ve exceeded his stats - dribbles, goals, assists, even defensive actions.

Regardless of all that, from what I’ve seen of both players, I see Buendia as a much superior and more technically gifted player with more to offer and contribute.

Thank you for the summary - really good.

I do generally agree that Buendia is the better player right now, although I do have some concerns about him being able to do what he’s done in the Championship in the Prem.

I do think there’s a significant chance that in 3 years time when McNeil is 24 he will be far better than Buendia.

Agree to disagree

[Guest av1]

2 hours ago, CVByrne said:

Ultimately whatever wide player we sign this summer will represent a good addition to our first team. I cannot see us signing McNeil for a price we don't believe will be lower than his market value in 2 years of he joined us. 

Exactly. £16/17m seemed expensive for a keeper that didn’t get a sniff at Arsenal for over a decade, a left back not rated by the mighty Southampton and a right winger that had spent 1 season at RB for Forest.

I have seen enough from Smith and the recruitment team to trust their judgment. 

I like the look of DM. He has tons of top flight experience for his age and will only get better In a more creative team. As @Zatmanhas pointed out above, comparing the stats of forward at Burnley to players at City at Leicester is stark raving bonkers. 

[Jas10]

4 minutes ago, KangarooVillan said:

Thank you for the summary - really good.

I do generally agree that Buendia is the better player right now, although I do have some concerns about him being able to do what he’s done in the Championship in the Prem.

I do think there’s a significant chance that in 3 years time when McNeil is 24 he will be far better than Buendia.

Agree to disagree

Sure, thanks for a calm and reasoned debate

[Jareth]

McNeil is exactly right for us, and can get better playing in our system, 100% behind this transfer if it happens. If we get him I give it about 3 games before any naysayers are singing his praises. 

[Guest av1]

1 minute ago, Jas10 said:

Sure, thanks for a calm and reasoned debate

You two must be new round here 

[Jas10]

10 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

That's how much young PL British players are going to cost these days I think. I actually think they'd want more tbh. £60m or something.

Brexit has fudged the old unheard of foreign gems from minor leagues. If Brentford started their journey and methodology in L1 today they'd have an absolute nightmare doing it as quickly as they have.

Mahrez, Kante, Benrahma, Mbuemo and Maupay just a few of the names who likely wouldn't be allowed to sign for a L1/Championship side at the moment.

McNeil is great IMO. It's not my money, so I'm not that fussed about cost if it's a position we need and a player I rate.

This is what concerns me, there just isn’t value in buying from within the league - especially British players (£35m on Andy Carroll anyone? )

Too many overpriced, overrated players (many past their best) on exorbitant wages…

Plus, most clubs are reluctant to sell their assets and the asking prices are huge because everyone wants to improve & progress but finances determine everything… it’s only the top and richest clubs that have the capacity to do so and not being impacted too heavily if it doesn’t quite work out…

So many stars of the PL were brought in from abroad and elevated the game and teams to further success.

Edited May 30, 2021 by Jas10