Tomaszk Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 51 minutes ago, Anything11 said: The mental gymnastics here is unbelievable. So in our case - do we just assume you and the other critics are wrong? If you want! If you can see a plan working, definitely. You should be excited for the future! Have you seen anything to encourage you? Please share, I desperately want to be encouraged because he isn't getting sacked even if we lose tomorrow. 51 minutes ago, Anything11 said: 3 losses on the bounce to start the season and they were demanding he be sacked. And I'm saying they were wrong, based on the fact they finished 5th despite having no decent striker all season. And now...they look even better. Quite fancy their chances this year myself. Chelsea and Spurs very catchable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morley_crosses_to_Withe Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 21 hours ago, Delphinho123 said: I think this picture says it all with regards to Gerrards tactics - or lack of them. Where the f*** is our midfield? We can't just play with Kamara and then two no.8's who bomb on - especially as the fullbacks push so far forward. Honestly, tactically, we're a mess. Kamara is going to be hung out to dry this season unless we tweak the way we're playing or sign another defensive midfielder. We're an absolute mess in the middle of the park. Teams are just going to run through us. Wakey wakey, Villa. It’s a dangerous situation if the play breaks down, sure, and a number of players would have an awful lot of work to do in order to get back into a defensive position. However, you can also look at that photo and suggest it could have been a promising attacking passage of play. If the first ball is effective, the Bournemouth full back has to hope he can outpace Bailey. McGinn is running into a lot of space, and aiming to drive forward so he can take up position outside/in line with corner box. You can see the B’Mouth player desperately trying to get over to cover McGinn’s run, this then leaves space behind him, but the opposition player picking up Ings has allowed Ings to get goal side of him with a yard head start. There would be then be an opportunity for Ings to take up the huge area left by the onrushing Bournemouth player. So say the first ball is effective and it finds either Bailey down the line or McGinn in space (either scenario ideally requires the ball to, at some point, end up at McGinn’s feet), he should then be looking to race ahead of, or cut inside, the onrushing B’Mouth player and then deliver the ball to Ings who should use the space and make a diagonal run into the box. Arguably you’d want the players in that situation not to be McGinn and Ings; I’d expect a better outcome with Buendia and Watkins. Buendia to receive the ball and use his nous to beat the man trying to get across, Watkins for his pace to make the diagonal run. They weren’t even on the pitch though, so..! Saying all that, it’s hard to deduce anything just from a still photo, taken in the early stages of the first game of the season, that started at a frenetic pace. What we can all conclude and agree on, though, that it was mostly a horrible, horrible mess. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 8 minutes ago, Morley_crosses_to_Withe said: It’s a dangerous situation if the play breaks down, sure, and a number of players would have an awful lot of work to do in order to get back into a defensive position. However, you can also look at that photo and suggest it could have been a promising attacking passage of play. If the first ball is effective, the Bournemouth full back has to hope he can outpace Bailey. McGinn is running into a lot of space, and aiming to drive forward so he can take up position outside/in line with corner box. You can see the B’Mouth player desperately trying to get over to cover McGinn’s run, this then leaves space behind him, but the opposition player picking up Ings has allowed Ings to get goal side of him with a yard head start. There would be then be an opportunity for Ings to take up the huge area left by the onrushing Bournemouth player. So say the first ball is effective and it finds either Bailey down the line or McGinn in space (either scenario ideally requires the ball to, at some point, end up at McGinn’s feet), he should then be looking to race ahead of, or cut inside, the onrushing B’Mouth player and then deliver the ball to Ings who should use the space and make a diagonal run into the box. Arguably you’d want the players in that situation not to be McGinn and Ings; I’d expect a better outcome with Buendia and Watkins. Buendia to receive the ball and use his nous to beat the man trying to get across, Watkins for his pace to make the diagonal run. They weren’t even on the pitch though, so..! Saying all that, it’s hard to deduce anything just from a still photo, taken in the early stages of the first game of the season, that started at a frenetic pace. What we can all conclude and agree on, though, that it was mostly a horrible, horrible mess. This all hinges on an inch perfect through ball from Matty Cash. Given the risk/reward balance of the scenario, it doesn't seem a very smart tactic if it's deliberate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 I wish Gerrard would just tweak the system. Have Coutinho coming in off the left centrally. Digne overlapping. Have Luiz and Kamara stay in midfield and have Cash tuck into midfield. McGinn/Ramsey can get forward with and Watkins Bailey So in attack formation 2 3 5 We've Digne Coutinho Watkins McGinn Bailey ahead of Luiz Kamara Cash in front of Mings & Carlos This tweak offers what we've lacked which is a goal threat as it allows McGinn (or Ramsey) to join attack and Cash covering. Cashis a better defender and McGinn is a better attacker. Simple tweak like this will do wonders. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 9 hours ago, Tomaszk said: I can retract that and say at least £160m if you want. One more signing will push it over though. Wages now, across the board, are absolutely broken and insane. They must be taken into account. Oh right so we are including wages now? Funny how they are only used when it suits the narrative. I’ve never heard anyone say x team spent x including wages until today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 15 minutes ago, jim said: Oh right so we are including wages now? Funny how they are only used when it suits the narrative. I’ve never heard anyone say x team spent x including wages until today. Has been mentioned on here for years, its how we got into trouble under MON Wages kill football clubs not transfer fees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 16 minutes ago, Zatman said: Has been mentioned on here for years, its how we got into trouble under MON Wages kill football clubs not transfer fees The "not had millions to spend" era under Bruce was fun. Paying PL-wages in the Championship to loads of players, loaning in Bolasie on £100kW and Terry on huge wages as well. But apparently the club didn't want to give him any funds... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macandally Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 20 hours ago, TRO said: sorry for poking my nose in....but all that is fair comment. "No Plan" maybe shot from the hip, but is denegrates the view, that it might be that SG has some disappointing ( for us) issues to resolve....and if so, this is where he earns his corn. I get this feeling from some quarters, that everything a player does or does not do, is at the bequest of the Manager, sometimes it is, but sometimes it isn't, thats for us to decide, the managers faces tells me different, and why players get dropped......In theory, it should be like that, but watch Peps face they clearly do stuff, he is not commensurate with, but its about degrees's of disobedience....I see Pep spitting feathers and Klopp, when he is not in deep depression over somethings. I remember Dean picking up a Journo and fuming, "do you think I asked him to do that"...... SG I would suspect is having a hard time of it.......if he can't get through this barrier, then the inevitable will happen, he will have failed, but that call card is too soon imo.....but believe me, if the issue won't go way, the next man with face the same challenge. I suspect, these players have had it too easy for too long....Now the pressure is on, they don't like it. I have nothing but " gut feel " or Intuition to support that......No evidence to claim. For me he is not helping himself, he has a fairly decent squad now, the way to get your message across is clear, if you don’t do as I ask your dropped. Problem is he is flogging the same ineffectual system with the same players who cannot seemingly implement it, irrespective of form 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macandally Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 19 hours ago, Jas10 said: I’m really intrigued to see how lining up with Bailey at CF, supported by Buendia and Coutinho, with Luiz, McGinn (only because he’s an nailed on starter and been made captain, I prefer JJ) and Kamara in midfield would work. Mings and Carlos partnership too. But it’s unlikely… I would play Bailey as central striker too, he seems the form player and knows how to finish. Also puts a shot across the bows of Ings/Watkins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, macandally said: I would play Bailey as central striker too, he seems the form player and knows how to finish. Also puts a shot across the bows of Ings/Watkins Absolutely, he is superior technically, faster and potentially a better finisher. It’s worth a shot and I believe he’d link a lot better with Emi and Phil. It won’t happen though, we’re stuck with these out of form guys (Ings is past it anyway, what a waste of funds and wages) and a shit, underperforming side, with no style of play, that fails to create anywhere near enough chances. Maybe they do need a kick up the backside but I don’t think the way we are set up and play is helping them much either… SG: “it’s on me” yes it is, so kindly sort it out or piss off. Edited August 13, 2022 by Jas10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macandally Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Jas10 said: Absolutely, he is superior technically, faster and potentially a better finisher. It’s worth a shot and I believe he’d link a lot better with Emi and Phil. It won’t happen though, we’re stuck with these out of form guys (Ings is past it anyway, what a waste of funds and wages) and a shit, underperforming side, with no style of play, that fails to create anywhere near enough chances. Maybe they do need a kick up the backside but I don’t think the way we are set up and play is helping them much either… SG: “it’s on me” yes it is, so kindly sort it out or piss off. So decided to drop the one attacking threat we had and go with Ings and Watkins Blokes lost the plot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vazquez Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 On 10/08/2022 at 20:03, vazquez said: I still expect that gerrard will start with this however Martinez Cash Calum Carlos Digne McGinn Kamara Ramsey Coutinho Ings Watkins Almost. I guess the pressure was too much and Mings thus was selected again ;-). Still would have preferred my lineup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 Honestly yet to see a foundation for anything under Gerrard. We have the players that should be able to build a possession based side that actually does something with the ball when in possession. Sadly those players are stuck on the bench so even when we have the ball a lot we still do little with it. The difference Buendia makes when he comes on is massive. Luiz would also help us keep the ball and pass it with a higher %. I'm not a fan of the Ramsey & McGinn combo for well covered reasons. Coutinho wasn't really involved yet again so it's hard to make a case for him starting and Ings scored a nice goal while Watkins had 2 assists but I'm still not a fan of both of them starting. At least not when it means Bundia is benched. Our press worked today mainly because Everton played without an attacker so no one was making the runs and stretching our defense that a natural forward would have. It won't work like that against better teams. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackbauer24 Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 13 minutes ago, Jareth said: This still relevant? Or was it Impatience and hysteria? I still think this is very relevant. Got to feel today's result was despite Gerrard instead of because of him. Coutinho forced the change and Buendia then transformed the game. If Countinho wasn't feeling a niggle, he'd have stayed on performing well below par. We didnt exactly dominate and were very slow going forward but playing against an equally toothless Everton. The problem is that was a battle we just about shaded, at home against relegation candidates. With this squad. And we were holding on at the end. We didn't look like a top half table team til we had Buendia and Bailey on (two strikers into working) and that was reactionary substitions rather than tactical ones. Bailey was average last week, dropped instantly. Konsa was poor last week , dropped instantly. Countinho was the worst player we had last week (and has been poor all preseason) and is an automatic starter. No consistency. Today gave him a stay of execution, but I doubt anyone can point to some tactics or decisions he made of his own accord today that swung the game. He's got to do way more than rely on the substitions he's been forced to make. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 3 minutes ago, jackbauer24 said: I still think this is very relevant. Got to feel today's result was despite Gerrard instead of because of him. Coutinho forced the change and Buendia then transformed the game. If Countinho wasn't feeling a niggle, he'd have stayed on performing well below par. We didnt exactly dominate and were very slow going forward but playing against an equally toothless Everton. The problem is that was a battle we just about shaded, at home against relegation candidates. With this squad. And we were holding on at the end. We didn't look like a top half table team til we had Buendia and Bailey on (two strikers into working) and that was reactionary substitions rather than tactical ones. Bailey was average last week, dropped instantly. Konsa was poor last week , dropped instantly. Countinho was the worst player we had last week (and has been poor all preseason) and is an automatic starter. No consistency. Today gave him a stay of execution, but I doubt anyone can point to some tactics or decisions he made of his own accord today that swung the game. He's got to do way more than rely on the substitions he's been forced to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.Bear Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, jackbauer24 said: Bailey was average last week, dropped instantly. Konsa was poor last week , dropped instantly. Countinho was the worst player we had last week (and has been poor all preseason) and is an automatic starter. No consistency. There doesnt need to be any consistency. Bailey was good pre-season and got a start because of it. Didn't take it and was dropped. Coutinho is our most talented player, regardless of an average pre-season he was always starting the first game and wasnt going to be dropped after one game. If he's in form he can win a game on his own. Not many of our team can say that. Either way, basing anything, good or bad, on pre-season is fools gold. It means absolutely nothing and before the internet, no-one gave two shits about pre-season games. Buendia did what Bailey didnt, came on and made a big impact and will likely start the next game because of it. But Gerrard doesnt have to be consistent, every player is unique in the way they get used. Edited August 13, 2022 by R.Bear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thug Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 46 minutes ago, R.Bear said: There doesnt need to be any consistency. Bailey was good pre-season and got a start because of it. Didn't take it and was dropped. Coutinho is our most talented player, regardless of an average pre-season he was always starting the first game and wasnt going to be dropped after one game. If he's in form he can win a game on his own. Not many of our team can say that. Either way, basing anything, good or bad, on pre-season is fools gold. It means absolutely nothing and before the internet, no-one gave two shits about pre-season games. Buendia did what Bailey didnt, came on and made a big impact and will likely start the next game because of it. But Gerrard doesnt have to be consistent, every player is unique in the way they get used. This is a myth. He turns up 1 game in 10 - when admittedly he’s unplayable. For the other 9 he’s our worst player. By a considerable margin. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.Bear Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 8 minutes ago, Thug said: This is a myth. No its not. No-one in our squad has anything close to his CV. Yes he's not at his best atm but he's still our most talented player by a mile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 13 minutes ago, R.Bear said: No its not. No-one in our squad has anything close to his CV. Yes he's not at his best atm but he's still our most talented player by a mile. I agree with this. But the problem is ever since that bright start, those talented moments in games are becoming increasingly rare. And when he's not showing those moments he offers very little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 3 hours ago, sne said: Coutinho wasn't really involved yet again so it's hard to make a case for him starting and Ings scored a nice goal while Watkins had 2 assists but I'm still not a fan of both of them starting. At least not when it means Bundia is benched. Ings works better in a front two though, he’s far less effective as a lone striker IMO. So if Ings starts he needs a partner, if it’s not Watkins it’ll have to be Archer or possibly Bailey. Starting two strikers also means dropping one of the 10s. But if we go with two 10s, then the lone #9 should be Watkins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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