TRO Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 33 minutes ago, sparrow1988 said: Why do people keep referencing Arteta when saying Gerrard needs time? Arteta had a plan and the plan was obvious, all the players knew/know their role. There were times when they messed it up but when they got the ball in the same situation, they tried the same thing again. Maybe the f-ed it up the second time as well, but they tried it the third time and the fourth time and so on until it worked. It resulted in some shocking defeats and runs of embarrassing results but there was always a plan. With us at the moment there is no discernible plan or structure, apart from, wing backs get forward. Build-up patterns are non-existent. Movement of the players is just random. There’s just no plan. Gerrard and Arteta played at the same time and were both midfielders. That’s where the similarities end. People didn't.....I did. What is this plan, they had, but didn't work, for 3 initial games in, when the pitchforks came out?.....but subsequently is working now, so all is hunky dory. What is this notion, that we haven't got a plan.....it might not be working, but to suggest a world class player, with 20 odd years of top level football to his credit, hasn't got a plan is preposterous.....maybe you just can't see it, I can and I am not convinced with it, but that is a different point to the one your making. Arteta lost 3 opening games and had behind the scenes problems with a senior player.....Many fans were calling for Him to go.....but his board, stuck by him. my comparison ends there. If you don't see a similar circumstance, to ours ( villa), fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danceoftheshamen Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 4 minutes ago, sparrow1988 said: Fair enough. The “there is no plan” line was a bit much. I also said whatever the plan is, it’s not discernible and whatever it is, is bloody awful, and is in no way obvious. There are no build-up patterns, no movement patterns. Even a defensive structure is nowhere to be seen apart from ‘Bouba will look after that’. Maybe that is the plan? To not be too predictable? To vary the patttern or something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 17 minutes ago, jim said: That's bollocks he barely speaks to the players. Someone on here said so... He has to look them in the eye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparrow1988 Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 6 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said: This results in a real dilemma for some posters who have consistently said that they don’t like our tactics and that we play too narrow etc. However is the narrative of negativity now moving to no plan rather than a poor plan? Too many choices lead to confusion. I think I recall Sainsbury’s deciding that 240 different types of yoghurt was too many and reduced it to a mere 130 yogurts to choose from. I haven’t consistently said I don’t like the tactics though. I’ve given the tactics a chance. However, after a period of watching and considering the pros and cons, I’ve decided either they don’t work or Gerrard can’t convey his ideas. We make the pitch too narrow going forward, and our defensive structure is essentially non-existent. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 Just now, sparrow1988 said: I haven’t consistently said I don’t like the tactics though. I’ve given the tactics a chance. However, after a period of watching and considering the pros and cons, I’ve decided either they don’t work or Gerrard can’t convey his ideas. We make the pitch too narrow going forward, and our defensive structure is essentially non-existent. I think the tactic would work with the right players, its the insistence of keeping it with players you dont have 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 1 minute ago, sparrow1988 said: I haven’t consistently said I don’t like the tactics though. I’ve given the tactics a chance. However, after a period of watching and considering the pros and cons, I’ve decided either they don’t work or Gerrard can’t convey his ideas. We make the pitch too narrow going forward, and our defensive structure is essentially non-existent. Usually if teams are too narrow, the middle of the pitch is quite congested. We have somehow managed to play narrow but have no one in midfield. Quite an achievement. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 2 minutes ago, sparrow1988 said: Fair enough. The “there is no plan” line was a bit much. I also said whatever the plan is, it’s not discernible and whatever it is, is bloody awful, and is in no way obvious. There are no build-up patterns, no movement patterns. Even a defensive structure is nowhere to be seen apart from ‘Bouba will look after that’. sorry for poking my nose in....but all that is fair comment. "No Plan" maybe shot from the hip, but is denegrates the view, that it might be that SG has some disappointing ( for us) issues to resolve....and if so, this is where he earns his corn. I get this feeling from some quarters, that everything a player does or does not do, is at the bequest of the Manager, sometimes it is, but sometimes it isn't, thats for us to decide, the managers faces tells me different, and why players get dropped......In theory, it should be like that, but watch Peps face they clearly do stuff, he is not commensurate with, but its about degrees's of disobedience....I see Pep spitting feathers and Klopp, when he is not in deep depression over somethings. I remember Dean picking up a Journo and fuming, "do you think I asked him to do that"...... SG I would suspect is having a hard time of it.......if he can't get through this barrier, then the inevitable will happen, he will have failed, but that call card is too soon imo.....but believe me, if the issue won't go way, the next man with face the same challenge. I suspect, these players have had it too easy for too long....Now the pressure is on, they don't like it. I have nothing but " gut feel " or Intuition to support that......No evidence to claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparrow1988 Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 11 minutes ago, danceoftheshamen said: Maybe that is the plan? To not be too predictable? To vary the patttern or something The best tactics are the simple ones. City’s goals, for example, are nearly all identical. Same movements all the time but with little adjustments. It’s easy say that of course when it’s city, they’ve fantastic players, but West Ham score West Ham type goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 4 minutes ago, nick76 said: I like this new feature Also, good news. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 18 minutes ago, duke313 said: Usually if teams are too narrow, the middle of the pitch is quite congested. We have somehow managed to play narrow but have no one in midfield. Quite an achievement. It's weird because in the first few games, I remember we were very solid in the middle, but totally open on the wings ( which I expressed worry about ). Basically no one could get through the middle. Now it just seems we are exposed everywhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exeter Fan Too Posted August 12, 2022 Visiting Supporter Share Posted August 12, 2022 I think what we also want to know about Mings is whether he has 'looked SG in the eye, and said he is ready to play' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 I’m really intrigued to see how lining up with Bailey at CF, supported by Buendia and Coutinho, with Luiz, McGinn (only because he’s an nailed on starter and been made captain, I prefer JJ) and Kamara in midfield would work. Mings and Carlos partnership too. But it’s unlikely… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 4 hours ago, Paul33 said: Where do you expect them to be when playing against a 10-man low block ? Not sure if serious, but somewhere within the vast swathes of the pitch where the block isn’t, maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 (edited) Damning. Edited August 12, 2022 by Delphinho123 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoelVilla Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 22 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said: Damning. Not even Kante could cover all that space. Damning is the word. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 14 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said: Damning. Good read. Basically Mcginn our captain running away from the ball when we have it at the back for 90 minutes. But he's such a warrior. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 We'll have had our own people who would've undoubtedly picked this up. Be interesting to see how we line up against Everton and the shape of the team. Gerrard has to show that he can learn from stuff like this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 (edited) I know we have discussed team shape and formation to death on this forum, but if we aren't going to play 4231 we really should try 3 at the back again. Kamara was practically playing in a back three versus Bournemouth anyway. It would make more sense and provide better cover for the full backs if we switched to a 3421. ------------------------------Martinez--------------------------------- ----------Carlos----------Kamara------------Mings------------ Cash--------------Luiz----------------Tim-----------------Digne ---------------Buendia--------------Coutinho--------------------- -------------------------------Watkins---------------------------------- Tim and Luiz being more defensive minded would work better and plug the gaping hole in midfield we saw v Bournemouth. McGinn and Ramsey would be better suited to the more advance attacking midfield roles in this setup. But, we're never gonna see it. Edited August 12, 2022 by duke313 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted August 12, 2022 Share Posted August 12, 2022 1 minute ago, Mantis said: We'll have had our own people who would've undoubtedly picked this up. Be interesting to see how we line up against Everton and the shape of the team. Gerrard has to show that he can learn from stuff like this. Mcginn has done this all through Gerrards reign. He doesn't get on the ball. He hides. We've all seen it. Yet he's captain. It's utterly baffling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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