Team shape, tactics and personnel

[briny_ear]

43 minutes ago, AvonVillain said:

That's precisely the problem though isn't it... that it doesn't look to be much of a problem. A 'name' starts in front of a superior player. As fans, we don't really care that Coutinho used to be brilliant, or that Coutinho used to play alongside the manager, we only care about the here and now. Gerrard and Coutinho are both trading on the past, on our time.

The central defenders and strikers know they'll pay with their place in the first XI for performing poorly, the midfielders know that they'll start regardless. It's no wonder we've generally been rubbish under Gerrard with this kind of approach.

Yeh, I think you maybe didn’t get the point I was making. 

[Peter Griffin]

2 minutes ago, CarryOnVilla said:

From a neutral perspective, the first half yesterday was boring af… it was basically the simpsons take on football

Is that Westwood playing on the right side

[Laughable Chimp]

22 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

I didn't realise there were multiple sources, makes sense though. What is/are the credible sources?

Edit: (after some research) fbref, which I believe is credible has us 7th in xG table

Oh yeah, there's a lot of different sources. I usually just use understat and fbref but word on the street is that fbref's one is quite good.

[Rightdm00]

1 hour ago, sparrow1988 said:

Interesting video on the lack of midfield from both teams yesterday. I find it amazing that two of England’s best midfielders from the last 20 years can produce teams like this. 

When you think about it neither of them were very good 8s. They were both at their best as second strikers playing off the 9. Gerrard did okay under Rodgers at the base of the midfield but he was never truly comfortable, see The Slip.  

[briny_ear]

1 hour ago, nick76 said:

I think also after seeing the lionesses and bringing on the energy of the youngsters like AlessIa Russo and co in the 60th minute when the opposition is tiring it must be the same and demoralising seeing Buendia come on with his boundless energy and technical skill, and for Emi having more space, tiring opposition knowing you can go full pelt for 30 minutes.  

Almost the same with Bailey as well.  

Bringing on them two with 30 minutes to go, especially for the opposition in that 35c heat after 60 minutes might be a great tactic than wasting them from get go.  Just an idea!

This is a much better way of making a point I was trying to suggest in the Buendia thread yesterday.

I am probably the only poster on Villatalk who thinks Coutinho brings good things to the side, and I thought the Coutinho-Ings-Watkins combination that we started with yesterday did OK and helped us to dominate the game reasonably comfortably in the opening stages. But the introduction of Buendia gave the Everton defence a whole new situation to deal with in terms of team shape and energy. Bailey maybe should have come on a bit earlier as well. So… goal number 2 and even our panicky defence couldn’t lose the points for us after that.

It’s a squad game, particularly with the 5 substitutes this season, so there is no harm in using different players in different roles and at different times in a game. Buendia has always looked a bit more effective to me as an impact sub than a starter, although that is purely feel, I have no stats to back it up.

Having said that, I think Emi did so well yesterday that he surely earns a start next game to see if that is the more effective approach. I also think there may be matches when 60 minutes is too late and the game is already lost so there is a lot of good judgement needed about how and when to make this type of substitution. 

[macandally]

1 hour ago, nick76 said:

I’m sure the commentator on the Forest game just said he was at our game yesterday and how pedestrian our first half was compared to this game. Sorry buddy that we bored you!

I think this is one of the key issues we have, lack of intensity.

Watching the Forest game they lack the quality West Ham have and arguably they both lack the quality I think we have, however both are going toe to toe based on athleticism and intensity.

Probably why Deano got more out of our first season motley crew.  Also explains our patchy form as you need squad rotation to maintain energy and intensity, something neither Deano or Gerrard really do

[KangarooVillan]

What would everyone think of a 4-2-2-2?

Ings                                      Watkins/Bailey

          Ramsey              Buendia

Kamara                            Luiz/Ireogbunum

Digne       Mings.        Chambers.       Cash

                         Martinez

[nick76]

1 minute ago, KangarooVillan said:

What would everyone think of a 4-2-2-2?

Ings                                      Watkins/Bailey

          Ramsey              Buendia

Kamara                            Luiz/Ireogbunum

Digne       Mings.        Chambers.       Cash

                         Martinez

Wouldn’t work they would naturally end up too narrow playing 4-2-2-2 and we’d be destroyed down the wings plus McGinn isn’t going to be dropped now he’s captain.

[KangarooVillan]

3 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Wouldn’t work they would naturally end up too narrow playing 4-2-2-2 and we’d be destroyed down the wings plus McGinn isn’t going to be dropped now he’s captain.

One of the CAM roles would actually suits McGinn to a tee - just wasn’t sure who he would start over out of Ramsey and Buendia.

[nick76]

2 minutes ago, KangarooVillan said:

One of the CAM roles would actually suits McGinn to a tee - just wasn’t sure who he would start over out of Ramsey and Buendia.

I think the formation is too narrow to work.  I think Rangnick tried something similar last season at Man Utd and was awful.  Our midfield is too weak already and get overran a lot.  Not saying this is less midfielders but not sure tactically it gives us strength in the midfield area which is already our weak point.  I also think we are already struggling with width so having even less width would not be a great idea. 

[KangarooVillan]

3 minutes ago, nick76 said:

I think the formation is too narrow to work.  I think Rangnick tried something similar last season at Man Utd and was awful.  Our midfield is too weak already and get overran a lot.  Not saying this is less midfielders but not sure tactically it gives us strength in the midfield area which is already our weak point.  I also think we are already struggling with width so having even less width would not be a great idea. 

Fair enough - sometimes I look at our squad and everything seems to point to a desire to play with 2 holding midfielders with 4 attacking players in front of the e.g. 4-2-3-1.

All of Ramsey, McGinn, Bailey, Buendia, Coutinho, Watkins, Ings have better attacking qualities than they do defensive.

I would love to see Big Tim step up next to Kamara in the 2 in holding midfield - he has all the qualities.

Unfortunately as well, until he does probably no point signing someone for that role as will block his development.

[avfc1982am]

1 minute ago, nick76 said:

I think the formation is too narrow to work.

I thought this was already unanimously decided? Last season. Nothing's changed other than personnel and it's the reason teams with width continually play around us. 

[nick76]

32 minutes ago, KangarooVillan said:

Unfortunately as well, until he does probably no point signing someone for that role as will block his development.

I think it might aid his development somewhat that he can come in over the next couple of years.  

With five subs he’d get plenty of time, we need another midfielder now.  

With additional strength in midfield there would be less pressure on him which would allow him to develop as well or better than the demands now.  

I think he’s a talented youngster but we can’t put all our eggs in one basket we need another midfielder now.  I don’t think that hinders Tim’s development.

[CVByrne]

1 hour ago, KangarooVillan said:

What would everyone think of a 4-2-2-2?

Ings                                      Watkins/Bailey

          Ramsey              Buendia

Kamara                            Luiz/Ireogbunum

Digne       Mings.        Chambers.       Cash

                         Martinez

Full backs couldn't be as attacking as we have now. I do think the 4 2 2 2 would suit our current squad though.

[nepal_villan]

1 hour ago, macandally said:

I think this is one of the key issues we have, lack of intensity.

Watching the Forest game they lack the quality West Ham have and arguably they both lack the quality I think we have, however both are going toe to toe based on athleticism and intensity.

Probably why Deano got more out of our first season motley crew.  Also explains our patchy form as you need squad rotation to maintain energy and intensity, something neither Deano or Gerrard really do

This is something many of us have been screaming about - how slow our passing and build-up play are. You simply can't break a team down playing as slow as we do. It's basically science.

[CVByrne]

I think Buendia behind Ings and Watkins is probably our best set up. We have a bigger goal threat with two up top and Buendia is in the better form atm compared to Coutinho who could be really effective off the bench. 

[daft]

Now this is interesting. Gerrard in a Guardian article saying that Buendia was 'winning the race to start' in the run-up to the season opener but was hampered by a muscle injury. 

This goes very much against the narrative of nepotistic tendencies in team selection.

Sorry mods if I mess up the rules by posting a screenshot, but I couldn't link the article from my football app.

Edited August 15, 2022 by daft

[villan501]

All this talk of kamara to play CB how about NO. Our side lacked quality last year in midfield for me we must as a priority look at another CB even if onloan and another midfielder, the latter I'd use sanson but he's not in Sir's favourites list.

 

Ings if given chances will score he's has always been reliable to score and he will for us if given chances.

[jim]

3 hours ago, daft said:

Now this is interesting. Gerrard in a Guardian article saying that Buendia was 'winning the race to start' in the run-up to the season opener but was hampered by a muscle injury. 

This goes very much against the narrative of nepotistic tendencies in team selection.

Sorry mods if I mess up the rules by posting a screenshot, but I couldn't link the article from my football app.

Gerrard is lying he hates Buendia. It is known.

[TRO]

21 hours ago, nick76 said:

I think the formation is too narrow to work.  I think Rangnick tried something similar last season at Man Utd and was awful.  Our midfield is too weak already and get overran a lot.  Not saying this is less midfielders but not sure tactically it gives us strength in the midfield area which is already our weak point.  I also think we are already struggling with width so having even less width would not be a great idea. 

Is the very reason why, I don't think the talent we have can overcome that weakness.....we seem to think we can dance around teams...... its folly.

I don't think any other manager, could change that either, without changing the personnel.....we need more strength and power in midfield, as just one aspect.....Kamara, has been a help, but not an overall fix.

He is the only quality injection from last season, now that DC has been injured......it simply isn't enough, in terms of strength and power.

Edited August 15, 2022 by TRO