Team shape, tactics and personnel

[PussEKatt]

When SG first took over,I was over the moon.I thought that we would finish 7th easy and qualify for europe.Now,after the way SG picks his favourite players to start and leaves in form players on the bench, apparently falls out with Mings and  Watkins.Devides the dressing room.He has to realise that the same methods/tactics/team selection he used to win the title in the SPL will not work in the Premier League.

I now think that we will be a mid table team under SG,finishing 10/12 year after year.

[Rightdm00]

Slightly worried he seems to use this 2 striker formation as his fail safe. Still grasping for straws when it comes to our preferred setup. Hopefully in the near future he can settle on something permanent. 

[Vive_La_Villa]

2 minutes ago, Rightdm00 said:

Slightly worried he seems to use this 2 striker formation as his fail safe. Still grasping for straws when it comes to our preferred setup. Hopefully in the near future he can settle on something permanent. 

Our record with it is quite good though. 

[Rightdm00]

Just now, Vive_La_Villa said:

Our record with it is quite good though. 

Steven has to know that too. Begs the question why he sees it as second best. We obviously don't have the players for the narrow 4-3-3 he prefers since it leaves us horribly exposed through the midfield. 

I wonder how many games we go before he tries it again?

[Tomaszk]

5 hours ago, daft said:

Now this is interesting. Gerrard in a Guardian article saying that Buendia was 'winning the race to start' in the run-up to the season opener but was hampered by a muscle injury. 

This goes very much against the narrative of nepotistic tendencies in team selection.

Sorry mods if I mess up the rules by posting a screenshot, but I couldn't link the article from my football app.

This probably was the case.

However, following on from last year when Coutinho was underperforming and Buendia was our best player off the bench several times...it means people immediately won't believe him. 

Similar when he said there would be changes after team-wide rotten games and he makes about one change in the next two line-ups.

He's still learning on the job after all.

[VillaParkAvenue]

23 hours ago, nick76 said:

I think the formation is too narrow to work.  I think Rangnick tried something similar last season at Man Utd and was awful.  Our midfield is too weak already and get overran a lot.  Not saying this is less midfielders but not sure tactically it gives us strength in the midfield area which is already our weak point.  I also think we are already struggling with width so having even less width would not be a great idea. 

The formation isn’t bad in itself, Nagelsmann has recently had Bayern playing 4-2-2-2 and they look better than ever. (Not that our squad is comparable)

[VillaParkAvenue]

11 minutes ago, Rightdm00 said:

Slightly worried he seems to use this 2 striker formation as his fail safe. Still grasping for straws when it comes to our preferred setup. Hopefully in the near future he can settle on something permanent. 

Yes, when nothing else works he goes back to two strikers. It arguably makes our midfield worse but at least we tend to create and score.

[nick76]

9 minutes ago, VillaParkAvenue said:

The formation isn’t bad in itself, Nagelsmann has recently had Bayern playing 4-2-2-2 and they look better than ever. (Not that our squad is comparable)

Bayern could play almost any formation and look brilliant with the talent of players they have especially against the level of quality they are playing week in, week out.  It’s hardly a good example to use to prove the formation is the reason.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, PussEKatt said:

When SG first took over,I was over the moon.I thought that we would finish 7th easy and qualify for europe.Now,after the way SG picks his favourite players to start and leaves in form players on the bench, apparently falls out with Mings and  Watkins.Devides the dressing room.He has to realise that the same methods/tactics/team selection he used to win the title in the SPL will not work in the Premier League.

I now think that we will be a mid table team under SG,finishing 10/12 year after year.

Did you think he come to play for us, as opposed to manage us?

We was pinching ourselves to think, his favourite player, was coming to us.....It was a profile changer.....his favourite player was OUR favourite player when he was scoring against Man U, not Long ago.

I agree that Emi is more pugnacious and he changed the game, on Saturday.....but Emi Cost £30 odd mill and Phil c£17 mill.....so we need some perspective here.....we have 2 very good No 10's who we can rotate, when it suits, when was the last time we had that luxury.

You apply tactics to suit the squad you have.....and IMO The first team still has plenty of room for improvement.....That Midfield on Saturday cost us £2.5 mill.......its a bit much to think we can expect European football with an Engine room to cost that......sure there are mitigating circumstances, but that is the facts.

I think we overrate this team and there is sure to be some disappointed faces at seasons end......unless we bring in some further reinforcements, not for cover....First Teamers.

Edited August 15, 2022 by TRO

[VillaParkAvenue]

Just now, nick76 said:

Bayern could play almost any formation and look brilliant with the talent of players they have especially against the level of quality they are playing week in, week out.  It’s hardly a good example to use to prove the formation is the reason.

Nagelsmann has found that formation to be the best for them right now, so it’s not useless in itself. But, I fully agree about the difference between the squads.

[CVByrne]

13 minutes ago, VillaParkAvenue said:

Yes, when nothing else works he goes back to two strikers. It arguably makes our midfield worse but at least we tend to create and score.

I think it actually helps the midfield as we have Coutinho and Bailey often wide and our 8s covering the full backs. With just one 10 often he is central and if we're turned over he's part of the a midfield block

Also Watkins and Ings have an outstanding workrate for CFs

[Sulberto21]

3 minutes ago, TRO said:

Did you think he come to play for us, as opposed to manage us.

We was pinching ourselves to think, his favourite player, was coming to us.....It was a profile changer.....his favourite player was OUR favourite player when he was scoring against Man U, not Long ago.

I agree that Emi is more pugnacious and he changed the game, on Saturday.....but Emi Cost £30 odd mill and Phil c£17 mill.....so we need some perspective here.....we have 2 very good No 10's who we can rotate, when it suits, when was the last time we had that luxury.

You apply tactics to suit the squad you have.....and IMO The first team still has plenty of room for improvement.....That Midfield on Saturday cost us £2.5 mill.......its a bit much to think we can expect European football with an Engine room to cost that......sure there are mitigating circumstances, but that is the facts.

I think we overrate this team and there is sure to be some disappointed faces at seasons end......unless we bring in some further reinforcements, not for cover....First Teamers.

The midfield costs £2.5m on paper but Kamara is easily worth £65m + , McGinn would cost a team £30m + and Ramsey based on Chukuwemaka’s price we can easily get £45m+ for him. 

[TRO]

1 minute ago, Sulberto21 said:

The midfield costs £2.5m on paper but Kamara is easily worth £65m + , McGinn would cost a team £30m + and Ramsey based on Chukuwemaka’s price we can easily get £45m+ for him. 

I think you might be ambitious with your valuations.

but they are not for sale......That's what they cost, 2.5 mill.

my point is....we should be easily positioned to bring in another Midfielder, to add something.

[Marka Ragnos]

Small question:  Would someone explain to me what it means to "spread the play," particularly for a midfielder? Heard it recently and don't understand.

[jim]

6 minutes ago, Marka Ragnos said:

Small question:  Would someone explain to me what it means to "spread the play," particularly for a midfielder? Heard it recently and don't understand.

Basically the double pivot spreads the play against the lo block to push through the press and expose the opposition defensive line. the man in the hole can slip through the gap laying a slide rule pass for the oncoming striker to score. Works every time.

[PussEKatt]

7 minutes ago, TRO said:

 

my point is....we should be easily positioned to bring in another Midfielder, to add something.

Whats the point of bringing in another midfielder ?

so that he can sit on the bench as well while Coutinho starts every game (irrespective of form )

[TRO]

Just now, PussEKatt said:

Whats the point of bringing in another midfielder ?

so that he can sit on the bench as well while Coutinho starts every game (irrespective of form )

Maybe we don't need one to compete with him or Emi.

Kamara is good, but needs some help.....he can't do it all on his own.

[TRO]

29 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Bayern could play almost any formation and look brilliant with the talent of players they have especially against the level of quality they are playing week in, week out.  It’s hardly a good example to use to prove the formation is the reason.

You've said it all Nick...bang on.

Brilliant players can play any formation.....as Shearer mooted,once ... they adapt......limited players, find it harder to adapt.

We think some of our players, are better than what they really are.

[IrishVilla10]

30 minutes ago, TRO said:

 

I agree that Emi is more pugnacious and he changed the game, on Saturday.....but Emi Cost £30 odd mill and Phil c£17 mill.....so we need some perspective here.....we have 2 very good No 10's who we can rotate, when it suits, when was the last time we had that luxury.

This isn’t what we’re seeing though. Coutinho starts every game regardless of form and Buendia gets 30 minutes, impresses more often than not and gets benched next game. 

[TRO]

10 minutes ago, IrishVilla10 said:

This isn’t what we’re seeing though. Coutinho starts every game regardless of form and Buendia gets 30 minutes, impresses more often than not and gets benched next game. 

I agree with the frustration, I share it.

But I can rarely think of a time, going to VP where I agreed with every selection, under umpteen managers......I can count on one hand the managers who picked  the players, I fancied, in total.

He obviously see's something in Phil, like we all have.....but right now his form has deserted him.....Emi is wrestling with a niggle, and on Saturdays display, he has to play, his industry and pugnaciousness, is crucial to the team.

Managers have a much wider, set of criteria to manage, we have to trust them to do their job.

I think Emi has played himself back in.....but 90 odd minutes, is what he must find to convince the manager......I know Phil must too.

Edited August 15, 2022 by TRO