The Next Level

[dont_do_it_doug.]

We could theoretically improve on every player in the squad not named Grealish. But it's a question of how realistic that is. 

The strategy, I think, will be to continue to do what we appear to be attempting to do with the Sanson signing. Bringing in players who can compete on a similar level with the players we already have, as a minimum, in order to either push them on or take their shirt. 

To take us to that 'next level' Watkins needs competition, Wesley or otherwise. We probably need a couple more players in the other forward positions. We need a centre half or two. But I no longer think it will be about replacement's per-se, it'll be about having that depth, increasing the quality and intensity in training and giving the team time to gel. Don't forget we have the youngest squad in the division. There's still plenty of room for organic growth. 

[MotoMkali]

19 minutes ago, Made In Aston said:

You contradict yourself, as all those players are world class. Out of our wingers, only Grealish could be considered in that category. Bringing in someone as good as Traore won't take us to the next level. 

Can I like this more than once.

If we want to go to the next level there is no room for sentimentality at least in regards to the first 11.

If we look at what our expected first 11 in 3 years would be assuming we were regularly in Europe. It would be something like this:

GK-Martinez

Rb-Cash (young so may improve current quality isn't enough) 

Cb-Konsa (young may improve, yadda yadda)

Cb-Mings (inexperienced so may improve but probably will need replacing in the next few years) 

Lb-XXX (Targett has Improved significantly but we probably need to improve on him) 

Cdm-XXX (McGinn current weak link, we need more quality and better awareness) 

Cdm-Luiz (Young May improve not that level yet) 

Cam-Grealish

LW-XXX (El Ghazi has been in great form if he continues he could be a long term solution but doubtful) 

ST- XXX (Watkins is a good presser, good at holding play up but his passing and finishing can be suspect at times - may improve but probably needs improving) 

Rw- XXX (Traore is a good player oozes class but is inconsistent and his right foot hinders him) 

From that we have 2 players who would definitely be in that team (barring any surprises knock on wood), 4 who could realisticly reach that level, and then 5 players who all either need to massively jump their games or we need to purchase someone to improve on them. 

[KentVillan]

One thing I hope is we don't start taking some of these players for granted. The idea that McGinn is a "weak link" saddens me a bit - it was only a few weeks ago that he looked incredible vs. Chelsea. Besides the City game, he's been excellent all season, and he's still got a few years left in the tank at 26.

I think most of our first XI have a long future at this club if they want it. We'll just add more match winning quality.

[ender4]

9 hours ago, KentVillan said:

One thing I hope is we don't start taking some of these players for granted. The idea that McGinn is a "weak link" saddens me a bit - it was only a few weeks ago that he looked incredible vs. Chelsea. Besides the City game, he's been excellent all season, and he's still got a few years left in the tank at 26.

I think most of our first XI have a long future at this club if they want it. We'll just add more match winning quality.

Yes i agree... but if we are talking about the next level, then its doubtful McGinn is a consistent 'top 4' player over the next 2-3 years.  He's probably a squad/sub player at that level. 

So we will need someone better than him if we are really going for breaking that top 4.

[tomav84]

20 hours ago, StefanAVFC said:

I don't think we need to improve our starting XI.

If we want to be at the next level, we need a squad; two quality players at every position. Look at the Spurs', Uniteds, City's. They can rotate and not weaken their first XI.

Emi
Heaton

Cash
XXXX

Konsa
XXXX

Mings
XXXX

Targett
XXXX

Luiz
XXXX

McGinn
Sanson

Barkley
Grealish

Traore
Trez / XXXX

Grealish
El Ghazi / XXXX

Watkins
XXXX

Basically replace every XXXX. That's the way to the next level.

the mad thing is that players you've not even mentioned such as hause, marv, and arguably engels get into most PL teams from 15th downwards. it shows how far we've come

personally i think our summer shopping list will focus on, in priority order:

LB - taylor out of contract, no back up for targett

CF - need someone to challenge watkins. wesley coming back from injury and was hit and miss prior to that

RB - elmo out of contract, guilbert clearly not fancied by Deano

CB - engels also not rated by deano, and personally i think there's a gap in quality between the current CBs and Hause (i do like hause though)

CM - either Barkley on a perm deal or someone else of that ilk. marv and luiz will rotate the DM role, and we need 3 to rotate the 2 8 and 10 roles

[A'Villan]

I think keep this core group of players together another year or two, and some may just be surprised at what our next level becomes. Wholeheartedly agree with @StefanAVFC's post about replacing the players on the peripheral with players who can come in and compete for a starting place, at the very least, contest it and keep the starting men honest and at it.

I mean it's no easy game against Liverpool, we did them in 7-2. We've been competitive in nearly every fixture. It was this time last year we were aware that the turnover in personal for our squad was exponentially greater than those of every other club in the league, as well as our squad lacking experience, and talent in some areas. Look how far we've come, look how it's all coming together? I'm going to be the ass that says I told you so, but I've called it from around November/December 2018 that this outfit would be coming for PL scalps. 

[A'Villan]

11 hours ago, KentVillan said:

One thing I hope is we don't start taking some of these players for granted. The idea that McGinn is a "weak link" saddens me a bit - it was only a few weeks ago that he looked incredible vs. Chelsea. Besides the City game, he's been excellent all season, and he's still got a few years left in the tank at 26.

I think most of our first XI have a long future at this club if they want it. We'll just add more match winning quality.

This to infinity and beyond. I'm sure Smith appreciates the men who have put his work into practice and realised his plans, until now, and who show no signs of falling short of what's required any time soon.

[tomav84]

11 hours ago, KentVillan said:

One thing I hope is we don't start taking some of these players for granted. The idea that McGinn is a "weak link" saddens me a bit - it was only a few weeks ago that he looked incredible vs. Chelsea. Besides the City game, he's been excellent all season, and he's still got a few years left in the tank at 26.

I think most of our first XI have a long future at this club if they want it. We'll just add more match winning quality.

it makes me sad too but the reality is that you probably need to ask yourself questions like "does Mings get into the city team?" or "would McGinn get games for Liverpool?" if those answers are no, then we look to upgrade. that's how you get to the next level.

they are massively important players for us right now. but there's no room for sentiment, and if the time comes where we need an upgrade, then so be it. if sanson for example turns out to be better than McGinn, then that's only a good thing for us.

[KentVillan]

It’s not about sentiment, it’s about the value of loyalty. McGinn fights for this club, and is clearly a massive part of the dressing room spirit.

I think people are writing him off prematurely anyway. He was shit against City, but that was immediately post Covid, and he’s clearly a player who needs regular matches to stay sharp.

[Demitri_C]

Unfortunately the next level is the big boys start picking apart our team like with young milner downing 

You would expect grealish would be of interest to the likes of united and ciity. Then once that happens othee clubs come sniffing for the likes of mcginn luiz watkins.

But im trying to remain optimistic and hope under our owners who are ambitious (unlike previous owners) wont accept this strategy and not interested in just making money from selling our best assets 

Edited January 27, 2021 by Demitri_C

[A'Villan]

1 hour ago, KentVillan said:

It’s not about sentiment, it’s about the value of loyalty. McGinn fights for this club, and is clearly a massive part of the dressing room spirit.

I think people are writing him off prematurely anyway. He was shit against City, but that was immediately post Covid, and he’s clearly a player who needs regular matches to stay sharp.

McGinn is underrated, even by us. It's a shame, he deserves greater appreciation for the influence he has over the menial aspects of football which will never raise bums out of seats, but win you contests.

He misplaced a few passes against City in a game where opportune moments on the ball were precious. I thought he and the whole team had a relatively good game against City.

It's Barkley's hollywood flick on antics that lose us possession more frequently, not a knock at Barkley, just think it's easy to be in awe of flair moves and overlook the simple grit in football.

[Lord Willard]

Just now, A'Villan said:

McGinn is underrated, even by us. It's a shame, he deserves greater appreciation for the influence he has over the menial aspects of football which will never raise bums out of seats, but win you contests.

He misplaced a few passes against City in a game where opportune moments on the ball were precious. I thought he and the whole team had a relatively good game against City.

It's Barkley's hollywood flick on antics that lose us possession more frequently, not a knock at Barkley, just think it's easy to be in awe of flair moves and overlook the simple grit in football.

A few miss kicks was the only thing wrong with his performance. People also forget it was absolutely pissing down that night. 

[TRO]

On 26/01/2021 at 13:41, Delphinho123 said:

It's been bugging me for a while now and whilst the obvious answer is...''You can always improve', how do we get to the next level as a club and what positions do we strengthen in the Summer? I'm so in awe of the job Smith is doing and love so many of our players at the moment, I'm finding it hard to see who we replace in our current starting XI.

I think most are in agreement that the following is our best XI when fit....

-----------------Watkins--------------
Grealish---------------------Traore
------------------Barkley--------------
----------McGinn---Luiz-------------
Targett--Mings--Konsa--Cash
---------------Martinez----------------

If we sell players, of course, that forces our hands a little, but say we were to keep hold of that XI in the summer, who is most at threat of losing their place in the side should we splash the cash? I'm not talking about squad players here, I know we need a backup left back etc...

I feel the easy answer is Targett, or certainly would have been 12 weeks ago but his form is so fantastic that I wouldn't want anyone else in that position right now.
For me, it's...

1. Barkley - I think we can improve on him. I'm a big fan of his but if you were to ask me right now who I think we could cope best without, it would be him. 
2. Luiz - A classy operator and still so young but I still think we're crying out for a big, combative defensive midfielder. Again, I love Luiz, but is he top, top level?
3. Mings - Again, big fan of Tyrone but he's been overtaken in the pecking order by Konsa and his lapses in concentration have been a little too frequent this season.

Just to put this into perspective. A couple of years ago, we lost to Wigan 3-0 at their place. Now we're arguing over whether Ross Barkley is good enough for us...
This is a positive post - I love this team, squad, manager.

UTV

 

Its a really good question, but I think it will answer itself in the fullness of time.

You have partly answered yourself and I agree....but we also have to remember this is still a relatively young side, with individual development still happening......we are only 17 games in to the season, they are still learning about each other.

We have come an awful long way, but i still think we have some way to go to claim autotomatic top 6.

Tonight will be a big test and the away game at Southampton.....its a demanding ole league this....and our physicality, will be tested in these 2 games.

More games will unravel and fence sitting, will disappear and it will become clear, where we can improve......Right now, its time to wallow in a massive upturn, the sunny uplands are not far away, and set backs should be taken in our stride ,now.

There will be more business in the summer, that's the plan......what a time to be a Villan.

[Zhan_Zhuang]

13 hours ago, KentVillan said:

One thing I hope is we don't start taking some of these players for granted. The idea that McGinn is a "weak link" saddens me a bit - it was only a few weeks ago that he looked incredible vs. Chelsea. Besides the City game, he's been excellent all season, and he's still got a few years left in the tank at 26.

I think most of our first XI have a long future at this club if they want it. We'll just add more match winning quality.

No room for sentiment whatsoever.

Yes on his day he's a great player but he can be so inconsistent too which frustrates.

Sanson has CL experience recently and he is thought of as (in theory) a step-up in quality.

 

[Follyfoot]

2 minutes ago, Zhan_Zhuang said:

No room for sentiment whatsoever.

Yes on his day he's a great player but he can be so inconsistent too which frustrates.

Sanson has CL experience recently and he is thought of as (in theory) a step-up in quality.

 

Still pinching myself we are even having such discussions 

[Zhan_Zhuang]

Just now, Follyfoot said:

Still pinching myself we are even having such discussions 

It's what 'next-level' is all about. Continuous improvement!

Never stand still as those around us will gain advantage.

[Follyfoot]

Just now, Zhan_Zhuang said:

It's what 'next-level' is all about. Continuous improvement!

Never stand still as those around us will gain advantage.

Sun Tzu?

[Zhan_Zhuang]

3 minutes ago, Follyfoot said:

Sun Tzu?

Rather influential, I'm not sure of the exact quote.

[Follyfoot]

1 minute ago, Zhan_Zhuang said:

Rather influential, I'm not sure of the exact quote.

(Follyfoot taps nose having read several Eric Van Lustbader novels) 

[WakefieldVillan]

The most exciting part of this for me is the fact that Dean is building a young vibrant squad that all seem to be mates on and off the field and you can see the chemistry the players have with each other and the whole buzz around the club right now. The signing of Sanson is another exciting prospect who seems like he can't wait to get started and has been 'sold the club' very well.

You look at the ages of the current squad and it basically consists of 25, 26 and 27 year olds, 2 keepers at 28 and then Ramsey, Luiz, Davis, Konsa, Cash all U24. Then we have the real youngsters who have also shown what they can do. So it really does bode well moving forward. 

I'm not knocking the likes of Elmo, Taylor, Conor and Henri but they are  the real weaknesses (there not stupid they'll know that) but they are the oldies and they are the ones to ship out. 

We have been here before, the so called 'bigger clubs' coming in and taking our star men (Milner, Young, Barry etc), but I might be wrong but I feel this time it's different. Our owners have shown already that they mean business, saving us, spending money, keeping Jack etc.. we are led by one of our own, we are captained by one of our own - both have claret and blue running through their veins. 

We don't have to go out and buy 11 players anymore, we've been through that, we just need to - as the title of the thread says, get to 'the next level'.

Keeping Jack is key, to keep Jack we have to get into Europe / Champions League very soon, by doing that I think we need to make a couple of real statement signings. Or at least attempt to. I think another poster mentioned this too - and I agree that's the way forward now, to go for real star players.