villa4europe Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 the thing for me on the £15m if we're in the same league is that if Hull stay in the championship then how much more would he really cost? are hull turning down say £20m for him? are they even turning down £15m for him? maybe this summer but that wont be forever, they'll sell him eventually we would lose the benefits of it being automatic and it being a closed shop but its not like we cant possibly buy him again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJBOB Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 (edited) 4 hours ago, Zatman said: They went to Premier League clubs and only Hull wanted Philogene While true - of all the players I wanted to stay, Philogene was the only one I was gutted to go even if it was a buy back. Between Ramsey, Archer, and Philogene - the latter was the only one who fit a profile we're sorely short on (tricky wingers) though the rise of Bailey has helped with that. I think when Unai stares down at the bench, it would have been much better if we had the chance to bring on Philogene as he has that moment of magic that Gerrard relied on and that now I think we're a bit short on when it comes to substitutes. But Philogene wanted game time and that was definitely not going to be guaranteed with this Villa side, especially with how on fire we were during the first half of the season. Edited February 14 by DJBOB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 I honestly don't think he'd want to come back here, even if Hull are promoted and we activate the £15m option. It's not the same as Archer or Ramsey where they already have contracts for if/when they come back. Why would he force his way out of the club, sign for Hull, get them promoted, and then leave them for Villa, and be in the exact same position he was in this pre-season. It wouldn't make any sense at all. He backs himself and wants to be more than a bench option, fair play to him! If he doesn't get promoted with Hull then I can definitely see him signing for a bottom-half PL team and playing week-in-week-out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted February 14 VT Supporter Share Posted February 14 6 hours ago, MrBlack said: The "only in the same league" bollocks came from the Hull side when they signed him. And they didn't say ONLY. They said there's a buy back clause of 15m if we're in the same league. They didn't say whether there was or wasn't one if they're not in the same league, nor how much it was. I'd be amazed if we gave away the control of Philogene, given that's exactly what Monchi said we didn't do. Leaving a condition that puts his future out of our control doesn't sound like it aligns with our plans. Especially when the fee was 5m. Yea I see it like this, its a buy back clause at £15m I don't think it will matter what division we or them are in and Phil must have signed the deal knowing he may have to come back. FWIW I'm still not convinced he would get game time if all our players are fully fit anyway. As for Rogers not being as good......they have Completely different skill sets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Dogg Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 He's been given the goal, not an OG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osmark86 Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 16 hours ago, AOLMessenger said: I honestly don't think he'd want to come back here, even if Hull are promoted and we activate the £15m option. It's not the same as Archer or Ramsey where they already have contracts for if/when they come back. Why would he force his way out of the club, sign for Hull, get them promoted, and then leave them for Villa, and be in the exact same position he was in this pre-season. It wouldn't make any sense at all. He backs himself and wants to be more than a bench option, fair play to him! If he doesn't get promoted with Hull then I can definitely see him signing for a bottom-half PL team and playing week-in-week-out. We wanted to play him but couldn't guarantee first team football. He wants to play and improve. I think it all makes perfect sense. Seems this deal was put together to be like a glorified loan. I think that we will buy him back when we can guarantee him first team football, which by the looks of how he's doing shouldn't be too far off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted February 17 VT Supporter Share Posted February 17 Stories on this buy back are bordering on ridiculous. Latest one is we have to match the highest bidder for him........isn't that just a normal transfer with no buy back clause inserted, surely any buy back would have benefit to us in some form and from whats been reported there is none at all. FWIW I don't think we will want him back anyway, we have plenty of talent in his role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 5 minutes ago, tinker said: Stories on this buy back are bordering on ridiculous. Latest one is we have to match the highest bidder for him........isn't that just a normal transfer with no buy back clause inserted, surely any buy back would have benefit to us in some form and from whats been reported there is none at all. FWIW I don't think we will want him back anyway, we have plenty of talent in his role. Id reword that to we have an option to match the highest bidder for him... And that would also make sense, if someone bids £30m for him (they won't) if we match it then the buy back kicks in and he comes to us instead, the first option on him is ours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted February 17 VT Supporter Share Posted February 17 3 hours ago, villa4europe said: Id reword that to we have an option to match the highest bidder for him... And that would also make sense, if someone bids £30m for him (they won't) if we match it then the buy back kicks in and he comes to us instead, the first option on him is ours Anyone has the option to match the highest bidder on any player regardless of a buy back clause, its worthless if the clause is as reported, have we been that careless, I doubt it very much but I don't think we will find out anyway. Maybe we have a percentage of a sell on fee over £15m, that would make more sense. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 (edited) 30 minutes ago, tinker said: Anyone has the option to match the highest bidder on any player regardless of a buy back clause, its worthless if the clause is as reported, have we been that careless, I doubt it very much but I don't think we will find out anyway. Maybe we have a percentage of a sell on fee over £15m, that would make more sense. That wouldn't be my understanding of it, we would be first option, so if we match the bid he is ours as a buy back, we would have first refusal on him If hull accept say a £25m offer from Arsenal, we can hijack it if we match the number Edit again... The key is the clause would kick in once the bid is accepted, so if hull accept the £25m then we can match it, it's not a case of arsenal could then come back with a £30m bid and out bid, it wouldn't work like that We would have the right to match an accepted bid Edited February 17 by villa4europe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted February 17 VT Supporter Share Posted February 17 1 hour ago, villa4europe said: That wouldn't be my understanding of it, we would be first option, so if we match the bid he is ours as a buy back, we would have first refusal on him If hull accept say a £25m offer from Arsenal, we can hijack it if we match the number Edit again... The key is the clause would kick in once the bid is accepted, so if hull accept the £25m then we can match it, it's not a case of arsenal could then come back with a £30m bid and out bid, it wouldn't work like that We would have the right to match an accepted bid The more I read yours or anyone's attempt to explain it the less sense it makes. I don't think I have heard of any buy back clause that's like this rumoured clause and it gives us no advantage over any other club who would want to buy him unless Hull want to get rid of him for £3m or a really low figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaglint Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 Another assist last night and a heavy hand in the other goal too. I know he wanted to leave and I wonder if that will change in summer if we did want to bring him back. But would have been great to have him as an option with all these injuries and Zaniolo struggling to find any form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 4 hours ago, villaglint said: Another assist last night and a heavy hand in the other goal too. I know he wanted to leave and I wonder if that will change in summer if we did want to bring him back. But would have been great to have him as an option with all these injuries and Zaniolo struggling to find any form. He didn't want the kind of minutes Zaniolo has got. I like him but loads of players look like world beaters in Championship and doesn't always translate in PL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 5 hours ago, villaglint said: Another assist last night and a heavy hand in the other goal too. I know he wanted to leave and I wonder if that will change in summer if we did want to bring him back. But would have been great to have him as an option with all these injuries and Zaniolo struggling to find any form. Zaniolo is still a superior player than him even when struggling. Zaniolo would be easily the best player in the Championship Doing well in Championship is great for him but he is not near the level of a top 6 Premier League team yet 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 Some unnecessarily complicated takes here on the buyback clause. If Hull get promoted, we can buy the player for £15m, if another club want to bid £25m for him they can, but Hull has to accept our £15m bid. It's then up to the player who he joins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 18 minutes ago, duke313 said: Some unnecessarily complicated takes here on the buyback clause. If Hull get promoted, we can buy the player for £15m, if another club want to bid £25m for him they can, but Hull has to accept our £15m bid. It's then up to the player who he joins. That wouldn't be my understanding of it at all! We would have a match the accepted bid first refusal clause not revert back to the £15m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don_Simon Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 36 minutes ago, villa4europe said: That wouldn't be my understanding of it at all! We would have a match the accepted bid first refusal clause not revert back to the £15m I don't understand this. So that's potentially two posts in a row with no understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
It's Your Round Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 I wouldn’t get caught up in the details. He’ll probably do his ACL before the end of the season and be staying at Hull. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 5 minutes ago, Don_Simon said: I don't understand this. So that's potentially two posts in a row with no understanding. If Hull accept an offer from someone for let's say £25m then villa would have the option to match it and if we did then they would automatically have to accept our bid too Anything hull accept we can match and it is also accepted What I don't know then is if he has a contract already agreed with villa should that scenario happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don_Simon Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 47 minutes ago, villa4europe said: If Hull accept an offer from someone for let's say £25m then villa would have the option to match it and if we did then they would automatically have to accept our bid too Anything hull accept we can match and it is also accepted What I don't know then is if he has a contract already agreed with villa should that scenario happen How do you know this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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