a m ole Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 2 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: No, not the same. I’m not absolving him of blame for our season but according to some he and other coaches are responsible for coming in and wrecking it all which is just a bit daft. Maybe one or two are. The bit that’s the same is the “seem so knowledgable about his coaching ability and personality” part, which ‘some’ seem to have expert level insight on Smith. I see a very unfortunate situation we found ourselves in and the club deemed that change needed to happen to arrest the slip - all of them should fall if that’s the case as continuity is not what is needed. Sacking Smith and keeping the rest is just about the worst thing we could have done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted November 7, 2021 Moderator Share Posted November 7, 2021 7 minutes ago, a m ole said: Maybe one or two are. The bit that’s the same is the “seem so knowledgable about his coaching ability and personality” part, which ‘some’ seem to have expert level insight on Smith. I see a very unfortunate situation we found ourselves in and the club deemed that change needed to happen to arrest the slip - all of them should fall if that’s the case as continuity is not what is needed. Sacking Smith and keeping the rest is just about the worst thing we could have done. No, not the same. We see week in week out the decisions Smith makes in matches, we hear what he has to say in press conferences. So unless you’ve been hanging out down BMH they aren’t remotely the same. I’ve not said Shakespear should stay or anything remotely close, I just think this notion he was the rotten apple or cause of Smith’s demise is just a bit silly and totally unfounded. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 Just now, TrentVilla said: No, not the same. We see week in week out the decisions Smith makes in matches, we hear what he has to say in press conferences. So unless you’ve been hanging out down BMH they aren’t remotely the same. I’ve not said Shakespear should stay or anything remotely close, I just think this notion he was the rotten apple or cause of Smith’s demise is just a bit silly and totally unfounded. It is the same, but I really can’t be arsed to get into the same shit over and over again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted November 7, 2021 Moderator Share Posted November 7, 2021 Just now, a m ole said: It is the same, but I really can’t be arsed to get into the same shit over and over again. No. It really isn’t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 2 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: No. It really isn’t. Ok, Trent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 defo gone then, to other football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 1 hour ago, villa89 said: More modern coaches please, who want to play positive entertaining football. Mcphee and Danks got any mates then ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 11 minutes ago, hippo said: Mcphee and Danks got any mates then ? ironically, McPhee has been noted to be against the "Barcelona way", and is an advocate of direct football, he said in an interview proudly that one of the teams he was part of the coaching staff for, regularly scored goals in "5 passed or under". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keener window-cleaner Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, foreveryoung said: Supposed to be rated. But if the Leicester story was all true, should never had had him here in the first place. Was the demise of Ranieri, now the demise of Smith, well done Shaky, well done. My understanding regarding his time at Leicester is the complete opposite. My understanding is that he was the brain behind both Nigel Pearson and Ranieri. Ranieri was said to be slightly wierd and Shakespeare the one who was behind their success. Hence why he also got the job as manager for a short period after Ranieri. I think Shakespeare was behind our vast improvement in the beginning of last season. I have no reason at all to believe anything else than that Shakespeare is a terrific coach and well liked. Being part of the management team that has overseen our demise over the last half a year, he is of course - as @TrentVilla pointed out - not absolved of any blame. But in no way should he be made some kind of scape goat imo. Btw there is no need of finding scape goats either, in these cases it is often just a combination of different circumstances that lead to results being poor. Edited November 7, 2021 by Keener window-cleaner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 2 minutes ago, Keener window-cleaner said: My understanding regarding his time at Leicester is the complete opposite. My understanding is that he was the brain behind both Nigel Pearson and Ranieri. Ranieri was said to be slightly wierd and Shakespear the one who was behind their success. Hence why he also got the job as manager for a short period after Ranieri. I think Shakespear was behind our vast improvement in the beginning of last season. I have no reason at all to beleive anything else than that Shakespear is a terrific coach and well liked. Being part of the management team that has overseen our demise over the last half a year, he is of course - as @TrentVilla pointed out - not absolved of any blame. But in no way should he be made some kind of scape goat imo. Btw there is no need of finding scape goats either, in these cases it is often just a combination of different circumstances that lead to results being poor. No ones finding scape goats. I do know though they wanted Ranieri back after they sacked Shaky. Speaks volumes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 3 hours ago, AVFCforever1991 said: Why did we even get him in He improved us massively when he came in. Playing some of the best football seen at VP in years All went a bit JG Ballard this season, but I don't think he was solely to blame. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macandally Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 4 hours ago, TrentVilla said: No, not the same. I’m not absolving him of blame for our season but according to some he and other coaches are responsible for coming in and wrecking it all which is just a bit daft. The question being asked is who bought in Shakespeare? Was it DS or was it imposed upon him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted November 7, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted November 7, 2021 If he's gone we're surely 100% confident we're getting someone in quickly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 Like Trent I feel criticism of him is very harsh. We got him in early last season (or even before it started) and we had our best start to the season for well over a decade playing some great counter attacking football similar to what Leicester did in their title season. Yes it then went wrong but think it was more DS not really knowing what to do when Grealish got injured, Shaky can only advise in those circumstances. Wasn't it said aswell when he came in he was Villa fan aswell from his youth as he came through Walsall set up and grew up locally? He was also coach of title winning side so I certainly cut him more slack than McPhee and this Danks guy who have feel of that scout we once appointed who played championship manager or something e.g. they've been overpromoted. Shakespeare has been there and got the title winning medal and also contributed to our highest league finish in a decade. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 3 hours ago, macandally said: The question being asked is who bought in Shakespeare? Was it DS or was it imposed upon him? Him and Smith were team mates before so definitely a Smith move Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 6 minutes ago, VillaChris said: Like Trent I feel criticism of him is very harsh. We got him in early last season (or even before it started) and we had our best start to the season for well over a decade playing some great counter attacking football similar to what Leicester did in their title season. Yes it then went wrong but think it was more DS not really knowing what to do when Grealish got injured, Shaky can only advise in those circumstances. Wasn't it said aswell when he came in he was Villa fan aswell from his youth as he came through Walsall set up and grew up locally? He was also coach of title winning side so I certainly cut him more slack than McPhee and this Danks guy who have feel of that scout we once appointed who played championship manager or something e.g. they've been overpromoted. Shakespeare has been there and got the title winning medal and also contributed to our highest league finish in a decade. Paddy Riley was that scout and his signings turned out fine elsewhere. Villa have always had a lack of patience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 11 minutes ago, Zatman said: Paddy Riley was that scout and his signings turned out fine elsewhere. Villa have always had a lack of patience I was on about the Swedish guy Henrik something. And pretty sure there was also report we employed someone to scout Australia and he barely did anything but could have mis-remembered that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted November 8, 2021 Share Posted November 8, 2021 7 hours ago, TrentVilla said: No, not the same. We see week in week out the decisions Smith makes in matches, we hear what he has to say in press conferences. So unless you’ve been hanging out down BMH they aren’t remotely the same. I’ve not said Shakespear should stay or anything remotely close, I just think this notion he was the rotten apple or cause of Smith’s demise is just a bit silly and totally unfounded. I think I floated the bad apple thing because of the Leicester story, and then backtracked. Besides that, I haven't seen loads of people pinning the blame on Shakespeare tbh. Agree with @a m ole, all our opinions of non-playing staff involve a lot of guesswork, and being vehemently Smith out while excusing other figures in the setup is a difficult position to defend. Press conferences are exercises in diplomacy and PR, not a seminar where a coach walks us through his thought processes. Ultimately all we really know is that something has gone wrong. The exact apportioning of blame to Purslow, Suso, Lange, Smith, JT, ROK, Shakespeare, MacPhee, etc. is an almost impossible task for anyone outside the club. There was a noticeable change in our style when Shakespeare joined, but equally that coincided with Watkins joining, who is a brilliant striker at hitting the channels and bringing down long balls under pressure. Was it Shakespeare who brought in the long ball football, or was it just us playing to a perceived strength of a new signing? God knows. I'd love to read a few tell-all books about the last 3 years at Villa, because there are so many unanswered questions... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted November 8, 2021 Moderator Share Posted November 8, 2021 1 minute ago, KentVillan said: I think I floated the bad apple thing because of the Leicester story, and then backtracked. Besides that, I haven't seen loads of people pinning the blame on Shakespeare tbh. Agree with @a m ole, all our opinions of non-playing staff involve a lot of guesswork, and being vehemently Smith out while excusing other figures in the setup is a difficult position to defend. Press conferences are exercises in diplomacy and PR, not a seminar where a coach walks us through his thought processes. Ultimately all we really know is that something has gone wrong. The exact apportioning of blame to Purslow, Suso, Lange, Smith, JT, ROK, Shakespeare, MacPhee, etc. is an almost impossible task for anyone outside the club. There was a noticeable change in our style when Shakespeare joined, but equally that coincided with Watkins joining, who is a brilliant striker at hitting the channels and bringing down long balls under pressure. Was it Shakespeare who brought in the long ball football, or was it just us playing to a perceived strength of a new signing? God knows. I'd love to read a few tell-all books about the last 3 years at Villa, because there are so many unanswered questions... Who is excusing other people in the set up? I’m certainly not. I just think the way all of a sudden Shakespear is being blamed by some is a little ridiculous and frankly comes across a little like just another excuse in favour of Smith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted November 8, 2021 Share Posted November 8, 2021 20 minutes ago, VillaChris said: I was on about the Swedish guy Henrik something. And pretty sure there was also report we employed someone to scout Australia and he barely did anything but could have mis-remembered that. Wasn't he a German guy we took from Arsenal. FWIW having somebody study Football Manager isn't a bad thing was probably ahead of his time in terms of thinking out of the box ideas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts