TRO Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 (edited) 9 hours ago, mallett said: Watkins needs Toney to have a poor game tonight. This guardian article says that Southgate has been talking up how big an opportunity it is for Toney this evening. I agree with the basic premise of the article that Watkins and Toney are competing for the same position in the squad as cover for Kane. And in that context it makes sense for Southgate to look at Toney in this game. I am a bit worried on behalf of Ollie that I don’t remember Southgate ever bigging him up in the way it suggests he has been Toney. My preference would be for Watkins obviously - as a Villa fan. I think he offers England the chance to switch how they play. Kane has been pretty immobile as a forward since his succession of ankle injuries. Earlier on in his career, Kane was well known for his pressing and work rate but physically he couldn’t play like that anymore and he showed his quality by adapting his game to drop into midfield and pick a pass whilst continuing to score. That means that on paper Toney is probably a better fit if you want the replacement for Kane to literally just be a poorer version of Kane. Someone who slots into the system so that England can play the same way. My worry would be is that this is Southgate’s preference. Whereas I would like England to switch systems entirely when Watkins is in the team, by playing with a far more fluid and mobile attacking style that makes more use of the attributes of Saka, Foden, and Bellingham. However Southgate hasn’t tried this so it’s not going to happen. Kane has never won a trophy, is that because his goals come at the expense of the overall performance of the team? Before they were scuppered by injuries Spurs looked a much better team without Kane than with him.. He joins Bayern and for the first time in goodness knows how long they are not going to win the league. For England, Kane is arguably a flat track bully perhaps he’s the reason England keep failing to make that final step up? Realistically Kane is always going to be plan A. But in my opinion Ollie should be plan B but a very different plan B. Here Southgate’s incredible Villa prejudice is an issue. He left Villa for the ‘bigger’ opportunities at Middlesbrough as a player which was weird at the time and frankly baffling with hindsight. The treatment of Grealish when he was a Villa player compared to when he was a city. Despite the media hype Pep didn’t make Grealish a better player he just taught him how to play in a different system. But Grealish was picked when he was crap for City and ignored when he was brilliant for Villa. Jack felt he would get more England opportunities playing for City rather than Villa and he was right. For these reasons Watkins needs Toney to have a stinker or be completely anonymous tonight or else I think his place in the Euro squad is in danger. I don’t want Watkins to have his confidence knocked or head turned so here’s hoping for a terrible evening for Toney. We have seen it with Grealish, at Villa, now with Watkins......We know the agenda. If they was playing with the media 6.....He would be all over them or cutting slack....it's an absolute joke how Rashford gets in. Even in the halcyon days of the early 80's our players struggled to get in...even winning the league and Euro cup, it was sparse selection. It's so obvious, it stinks. Our lads only get in, when it's so blindly obvious, he can't avoid it. Why did he not pick Toney against Brazil, where he knew, it would be tight....oh no he saves him for a lesser team, to help justify his bias. It won't change while he is manager. Edited March 26 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 6 minutes ago, Paul33 said: I agree with others, he will go to the Euros but solely because there are very few rivals out there. So the 26 goal involvements don't matter? Clearly a Southgate fan over a Villa one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerCollins29 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 37 minutes ago, david-avfc said: I don’t think Southgate “hates” villa but it’s abundantly clear he has his biases towards the big clubs, impossible not to see if you watched England for the last 6 or 7 years. It’s always the case that players outside the Sky 6 clubs have to do at least twice as much as those who do play for the chosen clubs To get in the squad or start games. Mainoo prime example. Ridiculous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWARLEY2 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 Lets face it. Gareth isnt going to change his system for a striker. Unlike the very best of the managers in the world . Whoever adapts the best to no risk football will be taken and i suspect it will be Toney. Personally i would take 3 strikers but that would be the correct option, which we know will not happen as he will play Kane in all the competitive minutes in the Euros Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 If Mainoo played for us, or even someone like Brighton, West Ham, or Wolves he would be in the England squad. He's not in there because he's England quality right now, hence he was named in the 21s to begin with, he's in there because they had an injury, not much in the way of other options, so gave the space to one of the most promising U21s for development time, not sure why people can't grasp that concept Not sure why people moaning about Watkins not being given a chance either, he's literally just played the full 90 minutes against Brazil, and barring some major happening he will be jetting off to the Euros 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turvontour Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 29 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: So the 26 goal involvements don't matter? Clearly a Southgate fan over a Villa one. Prem goal involvements 1 Watkins 2 Salah 3 Son 4 Saka 5 Haaland It's just a shame that Watkins can't play international football. Whatever that means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 2 hours ago, useless said: If Mainoo played for us, or even someone like Brighton, West Ham, or Wolves he would be in the England squad. He's not in there because he's England quality right now, hence he was named in the 21s to begin with, he's in there because they had an injury, not much in the way of other options, so gave the space to one of the most promising U21s for development time, not sure why people can't grasp that concept Not sure why people moaning about Watkins not being given a chance either, he's literally just played the full 90 minutes against Brazil, and barring some major happening he will be jetting off to the Euros It’s not that he wasn’t given a chance, rather that there’s calls for him not to make the squad now because of that game, and that Toney will somehow be a better option if he plays well today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 I'd take Mainoo, don't care how young he is. He's much better on the ball than Gallagher. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marka Ragnos Posted March 26 VT Supporter Share Posted March 26 (edited) 3 hours ago, TRO said: We have seen it with Grealish, at Villa, now with Watkins......We know the agenda. If they was playing with the media 6.....He would be all over them or cutting slack....it's an absolute joke how Rashford gets in. Even in the halcyon days of the early 80's our players struggled to get in...even winning the league and Euro cup, it was sparse selection. It's so obvious, it stinks. Our lads only get in, when it's so blindly obvious, he can't avoid it. Why did he not pick Toney against Brazil, where he knew, it would be tight....oh no he saves him for a lesser team, to help justify his bias. It won't change while he is manager. I don't know. No disrespect meant, but that almost sounds a bit paranoid/conspiracy-theoryish. Couldn't it just be that Southgate values loyal relationships and personal experiences with players over individual standout skill, and in recent years, Villa haven't offered dozens of English players who were so skilled that he was willing to risk tipping over the awkward basket of squirming codfish that is England football for the sake of working in someone new? It could be that Southgate lacks ruthlessness more than England possesses some kind of anti-Villa, decades-old secret agenda. I just don't buy it. Sounds a bit self-pitying. Edited March 26 by Marka Ragnos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 10 hours ago, StefanAVFC said: It's mental isn't it? 10 assists, 16 goals was just to have a single chance in a meaningless friendly, and after that, it's over? Southgate has always had a massive hard on for Toney, even during his ban Southgate would bring him up in the media. Never mind his disgusting recency bias comment about Ollie yet some Villa fans think Gareth a good guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 3 hours ago, useless said: If Mainoo played for us, or even someone like Brighton, West Ham, or Wolves he would be in the England squad. He's not in there because he's England quality right now, hence he was named in the 21s to begin with, he's in there because they had an injury, not much in the way of other options, so gave the space to one of the most promising U21s for development time, not sure why people can't grasp that concept Not sure why people moaning about Watkins not being given a chance either, he's literally just played the full 90 minutes against Brazil, and barring some major happening he will be jetting off to the Euros He really wouldn't. Jacob Ramsey didn't make the England squad last season when on fire Even Miley has done more this season if comparing youngsters 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 Belgium are not Brazil, can’t help but feel Watkins has been given the harder task compared with Toney 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 22 minutes ago, Marka Ragnos said: I don't know. No disrespect meant, but that almost sounds a bit paranoid/conspiracy-theoryish. Couldn't it just be that Southgate values loyal relationships and personal experiences with players over individual standout skill, and in recent years, Villa haven't offered dozens of English players who were so skilled that he was willing to risk tipping over the awkward basket of squirming codfish that is England football for the sake of working in someone new? It could be that Southgate lacks ruthlessness more than England possesses some kind of anti-Villa, decades-old secret agenda. I just don't buy it. Sounds a bit self-pitying. No.... Even when Southgate picks Villa players it comes with a snide comment or drops them for no reason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HongKongVillan Posted March 26 VT Supporter Share Posted March 26 3 hours ago, useless said: If Mainoo played for us, or even someone like Brighton, West Ham, or Wolves he would be in the England squad. He's not in there because he's England quality right now, hence he was named in the 21s to begin with, he's in there because they had an injury, not much in the way of other options, so gave the space to one of the most promising U21s for development time, not sure why people can't grasp that concept Not sure why people moaning about Watkins not being given a chance either, he's literally just played the full 90 minutes against Brazil, and barring some major happening he will be jetting off to the Euros I normally quite like your input, especially on the academy, u21, women team etc. I would strongly disagree with you on the above. There is no way in hell would Mainoo be picked if he was playing to his level at Villa, it will take him at least 2 years with injury crisis for that to happen. We have seen it before. If he was playing for Palace let's say, may be yes, because I truly feel GS has his favourites. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 Mainoo is the squad for completely different reasons to why Ramsey would have been, so that makes my point for me about people not understanding the concept, which isn't actually a difficult concept to understand. Mainoo is in the squad as development player to give him an experience, because he's rated extremely highly by the England set-up, and even then he's only been given that chance because of Injuries Mainoo also in there to tie him to England as Ghana were trying to call him to their senior team Also Ramsey wasn't with the seniors at the end of last season because the U21s were trying to do win what for them and the England set-up was a major trophy, other than Bellingham all the best U21s were being held back for that very reason Ramsey hasn't been given a chance since because he hasn't been able to refind form because of injuries, but if he'd have been as good this season as he was last, then he would have made an England squad by now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 What’s with the Toney v Watkins agenda? I would imagine both will get in the squad and both can bring different things to the tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 2 minutes ago, omariqy said: What’s with the Toney v Watkins agenda? I would imagine both will get in the squad and both can bring different things to the tournament. He'll surely take just two strikers, and the second one never gets a minute with Kane around anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 Screw England and Southgate. Hate internationals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 7 minutes ago, omariqy said: What’s with the Toney v Watkins agenda? I would imagine both will get in the squad and both can bring different things to the tournament. Its only 23 players this tournament. Southgate is definitely taking 2 strikers to add an extra defender plus one of Rashford/Bowen that can play there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 Ah right. Yeah Toney will get it no doubt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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