Aaron Ramsey

[Delphinho123]

1 minute ago, MaVilla said:

we got 20m for Moneymeka because it was Chelsea doing Chelsea things.

The Carney thing was a mad old do. I can understand why he went there, even if I thought it was a bad move, but for them to completely implode like they have, signing and selling players almost on a daily basis, has killed his chance of football at this level. 

A good deal for us, for sure. 

[wishywashy]

19 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

I think he has done more in the game than chuck has and we got 20m for him

I think the Chuk deal was such a one-off case of daylight robbery that it can't even be used as an accurate baseline to judge other academy graduate fees. Boehly got absolutely swindled, paid around 3-4x the price the other clubs (Milan, etc.) that were in for him were bidding.

8 minutes ago, gwi1890 said:

Because we have to generate funds surely we can’t continue a long term strategy of selling bit part players for a million or two here and there? some highly rated academy players will have to leave or we’ll have to start selling our biggest assets like Kamara, Martinez, Luiz if the choice is selling our best first players or the occasional academy player I know which one I’m choosing.

Precisely this. We've spent huge amounts of money, and having a profitable academy is by far the #1 way to ensure that FFP isn't an issue. The fact we're getting good money for players who have barely played for us several years in a row is indicative of how well the academy is being run. There are cases where it bites you in the arse, but overall it's a healthy way to run a club.

And it's not like this strategy has come at the expense of integrating players and giving them good chances in the first team: Archer, JJ, Philogene all good examples. We have a nice, healthy mixture of the two at the moment.

Edited August 5, 2023 by wishywashy

[nick76]

4 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

Because someone is offering £12m for him. Dur. No one is offering £12m for flops like Coutinho and Traore or we'd be selling them.

Plus it's a nice deal where we can get him back for probably £12m more if he flies.

Yep and that’s my point.  Emery has assessed him and thinks rather than keeping him that selling him is better with a back up of buy back in case he does fly but given we are selling he probably doesn’t have much faith we will buy back because while £12m is nothing to sniff at you wouldn’t risk it if Emery was certain AJ was our future.

[alreadyexists]

Overall I’ll be sad to see Aaron go, he’s been promising for a few years now and is a likeable young man in the odd interview I’ve seen. He’s super talented, but I suppose we have to trust the club if they think this is a good deal. 

[gwi1890]

24 minutes ago, KAZZAM said:

What if they under utilise him though or get relegated? And in 2 years time we are faced with the decision of rebuying him for £25mill odd. 

I just don't like the risk of this deal and feel he can just play the cups and conference league for us and see how he gets on this season here. 

What if we don’t generate any funds and stop operating as a business and face the same struggles as Everton, Wolves, Leicester and other clubs in a few years time?

[MaVilla]

4 minutes ago, gwi1890 said:

Because we have to generate funds surely we can’t continue a long term strategy of selling bit part players for a million or two here and there? some highly rated academy players will have to leave or we’ll have to start selling our biggest assets like Kamara, Martinez, Luiz if the choice is selling our best first players or the occasional academy player I know which one I’m choosing.

yeah, Chelsea use their "youth system" to generate a lot in profits and to help offset FFP.

We are clearly doing the same, as per a twitter post i saw, if we sell Ramsey for 12m, we have made 132m or something in sales from players coming through our youth system, so pure profit and helps our finances a lot.

Honestly, i think for all these youth players we are signing, and have signed over the last few years, i can see 90%+ of them, maybe more just being developed and sold for profit.

it makes perfect sense as a general plan, a conveyor belt of good youth products we can sell regularly will be huge for helping us compete financially, then we can just keep the cream of the crop.

If the Ramsey transfer is true, if he looks good enough we can buy him back, if not, we made more profit on youth players, not overly concerned tbh.

[StanBalaban]

4 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

Right you are. 

Highlights the importance of not padding out your squad with overpriced overpaid players.

Because someone is offering £12m for him. Dur. No one is offering £12m for flops like Coutinho and Traore or we'd be selling them.

Plus it's a nice deal where we can get him back for probably £12m more if he flies.

I'm sure Emery has carte blanch to decide who's in his squad without the need to be 'padding out'.

The "IF he flies" bit is quite important as it's good for the player to get regular football, but it may be a season or two too soon before Unai thinks he's ready to handle the full top flight role for us. Emery will do what he needs to create a winning team. Maybe letting another team be the guinea pig on AJ's assessment is better for the team at this stage in his journey.

[Indigo]

Tbf we can't roundly criticise Chelsea for their ridiculous business last season and then use the fee they paid for Chuk as the barometer for what does or doesn't constitute a player's value. Everyone was crediting Villa for managing to get such a fee for him given his age, contract situation etc.

[oishiiniku_uk]

He needs to develop further by playing regular top-flight football and it's not likely to happen at Villa this season. If he does well enough at Burnley that we want to exercise the buy-back clause then surely that makes it a worthwhile deal to make? I don't believe this is book-balancing for FFP and I  trust Emery's judgement if he doesn't think Aaron's ready to be a first team player here yet. 

[MaVilla]

1 minute ago, Delphinho123 said:

The Carney thing was a mad old do. I can understand why he went there, even if I thought it was a bad move, but for them to completely implode like they have, signing and selling players almost on a daily basis, has killed his chance of football at this level. 

A good deal for us, for sure. 

at a guess.

- wanted big boy wages, when he hadnt earnt big boy wages, Chelsea were willing to offer it.

- Arrogance, i get the impression he thought he was better than us and could walk in to a better squad.

- probably annoyed he wasnt a starter for us, or at least getting proper regular game time, as he felt he was good enough.

- Maybe he has bad advisors.

- porob other stuff in play also.

 

tbh, Moneymeka reminds me a lot of a Pogba type player mentally, not saying he wont prove to be a very good player, he might just become a great player, but i get the impression he has a Pogba type mentality, and that isnt a compliment.

[StanBalaban]

2 minutes ago, MaVilla said:

at a guess.

- wanted big boy wages, when he hadnt earnt big boy wages, Chelsea were willing to offer it.

- Arrogance, i get the impression he thought he was better than us and could walk in to a better squad.

- probably annoyed he wasnt a starter for us, or at least getting proper regular game time, as he felt he was good enough.

- Maybe he has bad advisors.

- porob other stuff in play also.

 

tbh, Moneymeka reminds me a lot of a Pogba type player mentally, not saying he wont prove to be a very good player, he might just become a great player, but i get the impression he has a Pogba type mentality, and that isnt a compliment.

He's definitely got some terrible fleas in his ear advising him on his career. We do forget that Chelsea is his boyhood club though.

If we had taken a "generational talent" that was a Villa fan from the Chelsea academy then we'd be pretty chuffed too. Overall, I don't think Chelsea or their fans are dwelling on that deal too much.

[useless]

Why are people comparing us to Chelsea and Man City, one we don't produce as many good academy players as they do, two their first team squads are better than ours, and they have much better scope to bring in World Class players, they sell their top youth players because they're in much less need of them than us, we aren't on their level yet, so that comparison doesn't make sense, just seems like people think that because Man City do it then it must be a good thing, wihtout actually looking at the bigger picture, Man CIty doing it has no bearing on whether it would be good for us or not, as their first team and thefore the pathway for young players has completely different dynamic to ours, they also sell the likes of Torres, Mahrez and so on, doesn't mean if we had such players we should be selling them because Man City do.

If we really need to sell a player for FFP purposes then it should be Archer.

[ROTTERDAM1982]

How will this affect FFP?

[quazzie goat]

I’ve only seen this reported by Alan Nixon, are there any more credible links apart from his usual nonsense?

[Tom13]

 

5 minutes ago, ROTTERDAM1982 said:

How will this affect FFP?

Apparently helps as it'll be classed as 100% profit due to him being an academy product. Could well have been a factor.

[Tom13]

And if we do currently plan on activating the buyback I'm sure it'll be made clear to Aaron how much he's wanted back before he leaves.

[duke313]

We’re not going to get to see JJ, Archer and AJ play a Europa Conference match.

[Steero113]

10 minutes ago, ROTTERDAM1982 said:

How will this affect FFP?

Can someone who us more up with FFP confirm this, but my understanding is that a sale of £12m pure profit immediately gives us £60m FFP wiggle room due to amortisation of a new players fee and contract?

[villabromsgrove]

17 minutes ago, StanBalaban said:

With that in mind, those sales would be to wave them goodbye - not part of a plan to potentially bring them back.

What we do know is Unai knows what he wants and need to make his Aston Villa team as competitive as possible. He may think AJ is not ready yet, or his involvement may benefit the player but be a detriment to the team overall.

For all we know AJ simply wants regular football and a payrise this year. If he gets a bump in wages by going to Burnley, and a pre-agreed new contract should we choose to bring him back, that ticks a lot of boxes.

I trust Unai more than any other manager I've seen at the club. It doesn't mean I don't question some decisions, but I feel confident that there is always a plan, a purpose and logic behind the choices made.

FWIW, should he be sold, the only way I don't see him coming back is if the tracjectory of Aston Villa outpaces the progression of the player.

 

Good post Stan, you've explained AR's situation very accurately in my opinion. I've found this discussion about Aaron Ramsey's future extremely interesting. It seems we've finally woken up to the fact that we're close to joining the PL elite and that means we have to start thinking and acting like an "elite" club. We have to leave the 'little Villa' mind set behind us and let go of the "he's one of our own" attachment.

We are regularly buying some of the best prospects in UK youth football and adding them to our academy. We can no longer pretend that they have been bought to develop for our first team, and now have to see them as part of our FFP money machine (putting it crudely).

I'm sure Heck will improve our financial income from exterior sources in the next few seasons, but we also need to use Monchi's expertise in developing an exponential growth in our income stream from the Academy in order to offset FFP.

 

[villa4europe]

21 minutes ago, MaVilla said:

at a guess.

- wanted big boy wages, when he hadnt earnt big boy wages, Chelsea were willing to offer it.

- Arrogance, i get the impression he thought he was better than us and could walk in to a better squad.

- probably annoyed he wasnt a starter for us, or at least getting proper regular game time, as he felt he was good enough.

- Maybe he has bad advisors.

- porob other stuff in play also.

 

tbh, Moneymeka reminds me a lot of a Pogba type player mentally, not saying he wont prove to be a very good player, he might just become a great player, but i get the impression he has a Pogba type mentality, and that isnt a compliment.

Chelsea are a bigger team than us...

You can say it