ROTTERDAM1982 Posted May 4, 2022 Share Posted May 4, 2022 Hes hit the post so hes a good player? Ramsey not as good as Luiz? He might turn out to be as good as you seem to think he will be. I think he looks ok, but i've seen plenty of 18 year olds down VP who were going to be world beaters, Mark Burke springs to mind. I still think he will sign a new contract, but i'm not going to get upset if he doesn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted May 4, 2022 Share Posted May 4, 2022 1 hour ago, ROTTERDAM1982 said: Has there ever been a fringe player who has had as much speculation about his future as this 18 year old. I thought he looked very good against Chelsk, not too bad against Ure, but the rest of the games hes ok. I would like him to stay, but if he turns out to be half the player of Ramsey , i would be surprised. Looked good against Spurs, had a great assist vs Norwich and nearly got an equaliser vs City. He is probably the youngest player to start a league game this season and in centre midfield at that 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steero113 Posted May 4, 2022 Share Posted May 4, 2022 (edited) 56 minutes ago, Zatman said: Looked good against Spurs, had a great assist vs Norwich and nearly got an equaliser vs City. He is probably the youngest player to start a league game this season and in centre midfield at that He's the youngest player to start in the PL at CM since 2004. He would be a colossal loss. Comparisons with Burke are absolutely hilarious. I for one am devastated as to his lack of game time, one of the downsides of the Coutinho signing. Edited May 4, 2022 by Steero113 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abdomlahor Posted May 4, 2022 Share Posted May 4, 2022 55 minutes ago, ROTTERDAM1982 said: Hes hit the post so hes a good player? Ramsey not as good as Luiz? He might turn out to be as good as you seem to think he will be. I think he looks ok, but i've seen plenty of 18 year olds down VP who were going to be world beaters, Mark Burke springs to mind. I still think he will sign a new contract, but i'm not going to get upset if he doesn't i clearly never said either of those things. coming on and flashing like he did against spurs was impressive. ramsey wasn't as good as luiz last season either, but he's just as good now if not better. which is my point. no-one thought ramsey was gonna be as good as he is now last season. carney has shown just as much ability, if not more, in his fleeting appearances this season and last than ramsey did in his first campaign in my opinion, and he's two years younger. i'm not saying he's gonna make the same jump but i'm just seeing quite a lot of salty opinions just because he might want to leave. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROTTERDAM1982 Posted May 4, 2022 Share Posted May 4, 2022 Didn't mean to come across as so flippant abdomlahor, apoligies. He might be a good player, probably will be, my point is i don't think we should allow an 18year old might be hang our club out to dry. I think if SG rates/rated him, then he will sign 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 (edited) 13 hours ago, ROTTERDAM1982 said: Didn't mean to come across as so flippant abdomlahor, apoligies. He might be a good player, probably will be, my point is i don't think we should allow an 18year old might be hang our club out to dry. I think if SG rates/rated him, then he will sign The sheer number of people in here who blame Carney and his Agent for "wanting too much money" is laughable. The player and his agent know the money he gets right now is almost irrelevant. All that matters is pitch time to improve him and boost his player value to get him the big contracts. His agent has deals being offered to him that are guaranteed playing time. This is exactly how Dortmund got Sancho from City. They put in guarantee's in the contract of playing time and a release clause is activated if the player doesn't get that much time. Interestingly this is how Bayern Munich got Thiago from Barcelona for cheap. These types of deals (as far as I'm aware) don't exist in the Premier League, like release clauses because they have to be legally secret thus kind of ineffective. Also with a new coach in Gerrard and signings of Coutinho to make a plethora of attacking players at the club where is Carney realistically going to get game time? He is doing the right thing imo for his own interests. I would leave to play for a team who really wanted me, said they will play me and guarantee me time on pitch to develop me. That's what I want to hear if I am him. People will then point to Ramsey or Grealish, but both players came through in weak squads with a lack of real competition in their places. Then with TI he's only just getting game time in a position we are about to strengthen with a record signing in summer. We'll see how much time he gets next season. Finally the predicament is difficult for this club at this time. Carney is an 8, that's his best position. We have a 20yo learning his game already at 8 in JJ. The chances we are going to play two u21 players in our two 8 roles on any regular basis in the league next season is never happening. Let alone McGinn being an ever present and the mooting of another 8 signing. There are too many factors that just point to this just simply making sense for Carney to leave. Signing a deal and going on loan doesn't appeal to him as he's being offered top league regular football on a permanent basis by these other clubs. It's simply down to the deal we get for him when selling him. £10m + 10-15% sell on clause is good for us Edited May 5, 2022 by CVByrne 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 44 minutes ago, CVByrne said: The sheer number of people in here who blame Carney and his Agent for "wanting too much money" is laughable. The player and his agent know the money he gets right now is almost irrelevant. All that matters is pitch time to improve him and boost his player value to get him the big contracts. His agent has deals being offered to him that are guaranteed playing time. This is exactly how Dortmund got Sancho from City. They put in guarantee's in the contract of playing time and a release clause is activated if the player doesn't get that much time. Interestingly this is how Bayern Munich got Thiago from Barcelona for cheap. These types of deals (as far as I'm aware) don't exist in the Premier League, like release clauses because they have to be legally secret thus kind of ineffective. Also with a new coach in Gerrard and signings of Coutinho to make a plethora of attacking players at the club where is Carney realistically going to get game time? He is doing the right thing imo for his own interests. I would leave to play for a team who really wanted me, said they will play me and guarantee me time on pitch to develop me. That's what I want to hear if I am him. People will then point to Ramsey or Grealish, but both players came through in weak squads with a lack of real competition in their places. Then with TI he's only just getting game time in a position we are about to strengthen with a record signing in summer. We'll see how much time he gets next season. Finally the predicament is difficult for this club at this time. Carney is an 8, that's his best position. We have a 20yo learning his game already at 8 in JJ. The chances we are going to play two u21 players in our two 8 roles on any regular basis in the league next season is never happening. Let alone McGinn being an ever present and the mooting of another 8 signing. There are too many factors that just point to this just simply making sense for Carney to leave. Signing a deal and going on loan doesn't appeal to him as he's being offered top league regular football on a permanent basis by these other clubs. It's simply down to the deal we get for him when selling him. £10m + 10-15% sell on clause is good for us Carney leaving could have implications for some of the other talented players in the youth academy, if they see no path to the first team they won't hang about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWARLEY2 Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 35 minutes ago, duke313 said: Carney leaving could have implications for some of the other talented players in the youth academy, if they see no path to the first team they won't hang about. 1 player not signing is not an issue. As is proven by a few of them signing 5 year deals recently . We show them all a pathway. We have shown Carney a pathway. 18 is damn young to be playing regularly in the prem in centre mid. And hand on heart no one can look at his situation and say that he is being held back. He has alot to learn still to add to his undoubted talent. Which Gerrard and McAllister could really help him with. But if Villa is not his favourite option then fair play . And villa and Carney can separate . We will get a decent fee in the summer and Carney will get his chance with another club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaParkAvenue Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 5 minutes ago, MWARLEY2 said: 1 player not signing is not an issue. As is proven by a few of them signing 5 year deals recently . We show them all a pathway. We have shown Carney a pathway. 18 is damn young to be playing regularly in the prem in centre mid. And hand on heart no one can look at his situation and say that he is being held back. He has alot to learn still to add to his undoubted talent. Which Gerrard and McAllister could really help him with. But if Villa is not his favourite option then fair play . And villa and Carney can separate . We will get a decent fee in the summer and Carney will get his chance with another club. I agree one player leaving isn't a problem (although I believe CC will become a very good player) and there have been no signs of other academy players hesitating. The responsibility lies on Gerrard to keep bringing academy players into the team, almost even more so if the transfer strategy shifts towards older players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWARLEY2 Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 3 minutes ago, VillaParkAvenue said: I agree one player leaving isn't a problem (although I believe CC will become a very good player) and there have been no signs of other academy players hesitating. The responsibility lies on Gerrard to keep bringing academy players into the team, almost even more so if the transfer strategy shifts towards older players. In my opinion its exactly why he is bringing the older players in. To balance the side .in 2 or 3 years time i think the plan ( if they all develop like they hope they will ) is to have maybe a third of the 25 man squad homegrown. It would be good to see Carney be one of those . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulberto21 Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 6 minutes ago, VillaParkAvenue said: I agree one player leaving isn't a problem (although I believe CC will become a very good player) and there have been no signs of other academy players hesitating. The responsibility lies on Gerrard to keep bringing academy players into the team, almost even more so if the transfer strategy shifts towards older players. I just wanted to say I love your profile pic. Going to work sometimes on the bus from Walsall to Birmingham centre that’s the view I get accompanied with a little buzz and I get that fuzzy feeling every time. P.S I hope Carney stays as he’s a good young player. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 3 hours ago, duke313 said: Carney leaving could have implications for some of the other talented players in the youth academy, if they see no path to the first team they won't hang about. City lost a couple including Sancho, but it doesn’t seem to have our others off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 5 hours ago, duke313 said: Carney leaving could have implications for some of the other talented players in the youth academy, if they see no path to the first team they won't hang about. I think Carney is a unique one. He was talked up by Purslow which gave a spotlight on him. He also got his first team debut at 17 so before he could sign a long term professional contract. The majority of our players will have longer term contract from 18yo and then get more minutes as a result of that as they have committed to the club. Then when they break into the first team and impress (like JJ) they are given extensions and pay rises. The biggest issue for Carney is simply to get regular game time at his best position is difficult because of JJ and because of the Gerrard system where the 8s cover the full backs. Only reason he would stay is if he was given a 2 year contract extension say and a season long loan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 I wouldn't be surprised if he signed a new contract in the summer after all this faff. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted May 5, 2022 Share Posted May 5, 2022 22 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said: I wouldn't be surprised if he signed a new contract in the summer after all this faff. I would be surprised if he did 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted May 6, 2022 Share Posted May 6, 2022 16 hours ago, CVByrne said: I think Carney is a unique one. He was talked up by Purslow which gave a spotlight on him. He also got his first team debut at 17 so before he could sign a long term professional contract. The majority of our players will have longer term contract from 18yo and then get more minutes as a result of that as they have committed to the club. Then when they break into the first team and impress (like JJ) they are given extensions and pay rises. The biggest issue for Carney is simply to get regular game time at his best position is difficult because of JJ and because of the Gerrard system where the 8s cover the full backs. Only reason he would stay is if he was given a 2 year contract extension say and a season long loan. I think that's the best case scenario. A short contract extension with a pay rise and a season or even two season loan maybe to a team in Germany or Italy with guaranteed game time. Would help his development and if he established himself become a starter for us or be able to sell him for a decent price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterw Posted May 6, 2022 Share Posted May 6, 2022 21 hours ago, MWARLEY2 said: 1 player not signing is not an issue. As is proven by a few of them signing 5 year deals recently . We show them all a pathway. We have shown Carney a pathway. 18 is damn young to be playing regularly in the prem in centre mid. And hand on heart no one can look at his situation and say that he is being held back. He has alot to learn still to add to his undoubted talent. Which Gerrard and McAllister could really help him with. But if Villa is not his favourite option then fair play . And villa and Carney can separate . We will get a decent fee in the summer and Carney will get his chance with another club. 22 hours ago, duke313 said: Carney leaving could have implications for some of the other talented players in the youth academy, if they see no path to the first team they won't hang about. Ramsey is a regular, and then you have Chukwuemeka, Iroegbunam, Philogene-Bidace, Archer have all played Premier League football. Then you have Reilly, Chisene (and others) that have been on the bench. i think one thing that can't be laid at the club's door is the lack of a pathway into the first tam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reivax_Villa Posted May 6, 2022 Share Posted May 6, 2022 Gerrard has mentioned Carney a few times this morning. I hope he plays tomorrow.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted May 6, 2022 Share Posted May 6, 2022 4 hours ago, Reivax_Villa said: Gerrard has mentioned Carney a few times this morning. I hope he plays tomorrow.. Was it not more the people asking the questions mentioning him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted May 7, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted May 7, 2022 Him coming on against Burnley has got to be seen as good news in terms of him staying with us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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