Guest av1 Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 I wonder if this is a Gary Cahill situation. I don’t want to go off topic and risk the wrath of the mods but I think the point is relevant. There are loads of Villa fans that with hindsight moan about our sale of Cahill, but the simple fact is that at the time (and for all his obviously potential) he wasn’t a better player the 2 CB’s we had at the time, to put it more bluntly, he wasn’t good enough for our starting 11. We didn’t want to sell but he wanted to play, and fair play to him. We had no choice and the rest as they say is history. CC might leave and maybe he could go on to have a career like Cahill. And if he does I’m sure there will be the same fans throwing sticks at the club/manager, but the simple fact is that currently he isn’t good enough for our first 11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abdulaziz1 Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 I fail to understand why don’t we just give him some starts? Im not saying surrender matches but we shall give starts to our youngsters who we currently have, Carney and Tim especially. What will we lose by doing that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 27 minutes ago, abdulaziz1 said: I fail to understand why don’t we just give him some starts? Im not saying surrender matches but we shall give starts to our youngsters who we currently have, Carney and Tim especially. What will we lose by doing that? They aren’t ready and we still want to finish top ten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted March 31, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted March 31, 2022 5 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: To be fair, if the 3 are as they are supposed to be, by description/potential, it does sound like the type of midfield mix we've been missing for years! 1 Box to Box | 1 destroyer who can also play and has some stature | 1 wildcard who is more attacking minded. want this so badly. really hope they see some first team football once we're mathematically safe. One more win and we should blood as many as we can. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 10 minutes ago, romavillan said: want this so badly. really hope they see some first team football once we're mathematically safe. One more win and we should blood as many as we can. They’ll be pushing for that 50 point mark as hard as possible and we have some strong teams to play, it’s unlikely we’ll move much from the main starting players to try and get as close as possible. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted March 31, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted March 31, 2022 1 hour ago, av1 said: I wonder if this is a Gary Cahill situation. I don’t want to go off topic and risk the wrath of the mods but I think the point is relevant. There are loads of Villa fans that with hindsight moan about our sale of Cahill, but the simple fact is that at the time (and for all his obviously potential) he wasn’t a better player the 2 CB’s we had at the time, to put it more bluntly, he wasn’t good enough for our starting 11. We didn’t want to sell but he wanted to play, and fair play to him. We had no choice and the rest as they say is history. CC might leave and maybe he could go on to have a career like Cahill. And if he does I’m sure there will be the same fans throwing sticks at the club/manager, but the simple fact is that currently he isn’t good enough for our first 11. Cahill was clearly better than what we had (imo) , he was a different class CB who could actually play with the ball. He wanted guaranteed football and MON wouldn't give him that. It was a clear error at the time to most of the fans I spoke to . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvonVillain Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 2 minutes ago, nick76 said: it’s unlikely we’ll move much from the main starting players to try and get as close as possible. It's unlikely Gerrard will alternate from the expected starting XI, yes, which is precisely the problem, and why the peripheral players and young starlets are likely thinking this is pointless hanging round here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 9 hours ago, tinker said: Cahill was clearly better than what we had (imo) , he was a different class CB who could actually play with the ball. He wanted guaranteed football and MON wouldn't give him that. It was a clear error at the time to most of the fans I spoke to . Mate I respect your opinion but we should maybe agree to disa, he want good enough at the time imo. I again apologise for going OT, I used it as reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 9 minutes ago, AvonVillain said: It's unlikely Gerrard will alternate from the expected starting XI, yes, which is precisely the problem, and why the peripheral players and young starlets are likely thinking this is pointless hanging round here. Or like JJ will enjoy the minutes they get, learn, develop, get better surrounded by quality players in the best league in the world for a quality top ten team and see over the coming couple of seasons that they, like JJ, if they are good enough will be playing regular against the best week in and week out. Sure they can try their luck abroad at places like Dortmund but you still have to be good enough to play with the likes of Haaland and Bellingham, two of the best youngsters in the world. Good luck if they want to try places like that, it would be great experience if they did settle and perform but a lonely place if not. Haaland is likely to move to the PL in the summer and I bet Bellingham will be over here in the next couple of years. Carney, if he is good enough could be a regular in this league within the next 18 months if he follows a path like JJ, it’s all up to him. If Carney works hard he’ll be playing first team football at Villa or somewhere like Dortmund. No way would Gerrard not play him if he was good enough and ready but he’s currently not ready. Just like that Dortmund won’t play if he’s not ready. If Carney thinks he’s good enough he’ll stay and makes sure he gets a first team minutes which leads to being a first team regular. To your point though there is a difference between Gerrard wanting 50 points and sticking to his regular starting players and him not playing the youngsters giving large minutes. If the kids were ready and better than the starting players they’d be playing large minutes. For the summer transfer window it’s imperative we get top ten as an attraction to players. Blooding three or four youngsters against the strong teams we will get destroyed and slip down the table. That doesn’t mean the likes of Tim and Carney won’t get good minutes but not the blooding some are advocating for which nobody does really. If Carney leaves his head has been turned either by money or a naive promise of regular first team football. Nothing we can do about that but if he was honest with himself there are very few places better than where he currently is, at Villa, to move onto the next step of his career. JJ has shown him the way, the club invest in youth, our midfield is the weak area of our team, yes we could buy some players in the summer but if Carney is as good as he thinks he is, he should be dying to claim one of those midfield spots next season and like JJ, saying to Gerrard with his football “you have to pick me” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 9 hours ago, av1 said: Mate I respect your opinion but we should maybe agree to disa, he want good enough at the time imo. I again apologise for going OT, I used it as reference. I loved Cahill as well to be honest. Was proper gutted when we let him go. Him and Albrighton are ones who got away IMO. I reckon THAT goal has obviously skewed some of our opinions though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 52 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: I loved Cahill as well to be honest. Was proper gutted when we let him go. Him and Albrighton are ones who got away IMO. I reckon THAT goal has obviously skewed some of our opinions though. 100% mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete101 Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 1 hour ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: I loved Cahill as well to be honest. Was proper gutted when we let him go. Him and Albrighton are ones who got away IMO. I reckon THAT goal has obviously skewed some of our opinions though. Ya both were terrible losses but don't remember myself at the time thinking these two are future stars in the making, you get that feeling with Carney which is why it makes it so frustrating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 1, 2022 Share Posted April 1, 2022 On 31/03/2022 at 02:10, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: I pointed this out yesterday. But Jude Bellingham was a starter in the senior team at 16 years old ( Even though it was in the Championship ) and was tearing it up against grown men. Carney's greatest accomplishments so far have come against under 21s and under 19s. He can look at what is happening elsewhere all he wants. Similarly to how Bacuna wanted Champions League Football. If you're good enough, both the game time and money will come. If you're a prodigy, it will come expeditiously. JJ is a CM, so him " not looking out of place " when first coming through, is a different proposition to someone alot of you are lauding as Paul Pogba in his prime. There is a reason why JJ was fast tracked nto the team by Deano, and kept there, ( You can even argue promoted ) by SG. In the same vein, there is a reason why Carney isn't yet starting Premier League games over certain seniors. Due to position, playing style, and readiness. Also, if the signs have been that he might not be inclined to sign a contract, why should we " fatten foul for Mongoose " as we say in Jamaica. Give him playing time, to get more experience, and form, so he can be better for whichever club him and his agents have probably been talking to for a year? Sorry, but I want people who are all in with us here, regardless of how good they are, or might be. That is my underlying, view. "your with us or your not" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 1, 2022 Share Posted April 1, 2022 14 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: I loved Cahill as well to be honest. Was proper gutted when we let him go. Him and Albrighton are ones who got away IMO. I reckon THAT goal has obviously skewed some of our opinions though. Yeah, piss poor judgment by club officials at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted April 1, 2022 Share Posted April 1, 2022 (edited) 14 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: I loved Cahill as well to be honest. Was proper gutted when we let him go. Him and Albrighton are ones who got away IMO. I reckon THAT goal has obviously skewed some of our opinions though. Plus the nearly 300 games for Chelsea and winning everything available at club football as a starter but no we paid big money for Davies and Zat Knight MON was a clown and couldnt recognise young talent Edited April 1, 2022 by Zatman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparrow1988 Posted April 1, 2022 Share Posted April 1, 2022 44 minutes ago, Zatman said: Plus the nearly 300 games for Chelsea and winning everything available at club football as a starter but no we paid big money for Davies and Zat Knight MON was a clown and couldnt recognise young talent "How many times did you win the European Cup?" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steero113 Posted April 1, 2022 Share Posted April 1, 2022 (edited) 56 minutes ago, Zatman said: Plus the nearly 300 games for Chelsea and winning everything available at club football as a starter but no we paid big money for Davies and Zat Knight MON was a clown and couldnt recognise young talent MON was nowhere near perfect but Cahill didn't exactly leave us for a title side immediately did he? He developed massively in his 4 1/2 seasons at Bolton. True there were signs at Villa but it wasn't the absolute sure thing that everyone nowadays makes it out to be. Edited April 1, 2022 by Steero113 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted April 1, 2022 Share Posted April 1, 2022 1 hour ago, Steero113 said: MON was nowhere near perfect but Cahill didn't exactly leave us for a title side immediately did he? He developed massively in his 4 1/2 seasons at Bolton. True there were signs at Villa but it wasn't the absolute sure thing that everyone nowadays makes it out to be. Agree But we kept zat knight and Curtis Davies instead of him! If it was a case of we sold cahill due to mellberg and Laursen then fair enough You could see that cahill would be better than what we kept 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted April 1, 2022 Share Posted April 1, 2022 Carney has to battle JJ for a starting place. There is no chance Gerrard is playing two youngsters in the two 8 roles. We need to just accept Gerrard taking over means the pathways for younger players will be blocked as his goal is adding experience. Carney wants to start games and there just isn't opportunities for that to happen unless youth player development is put to the top of the priorities for Gerrard. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
og1874 Posted April 1, 2022 Share Posted April 1, 2022 5 hours ago, CVByrne said: Carney has to battle JJ for a starting place. There is no chance Gerrard is playing two youngsters in the two 8 roles. We need to just accept Gerrard taking over means the pathways for younger players will be blocked as his goal is adding experience. I just posted my take on this in another thread, but I think it bears repeating: If our starting midfield was a better, more cohesive unit, I think Carney would have had a lot more minutes. As it is, you're replacing 1/3rd of a unit that barely works with a kid with very little experience. If the unit completely falls apart because of it, you don't want that affecting the kid's mentality, or the mentality of the other players around the kid towards him. A better midfield makes it easier to bring younger players through, because worst case scenario is 2/3 of the unit is still there and functioning properly if things don't go to plan. Also, there's the potential damage of throwing a youngster into a unit that just doesn't know what it's supposed to be doing in general - which is where our midfield is now. I can see the appeal to trying something new, but I can completely see why the management has opted not to go down that road for the moment. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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