Generic Virus Thread

[snowychap]

 

[WhatAboutTheFinish]

Night time economy advisor 

“How about we just get one between two? “

[Genie]

In the game of Covid top trumps does keeping pubs open beat saving lives and reducing the spiralling cases of Corona virus? I’m not hopeful myself, very clearly political move he knows he won’t win.

[Davkaus]

14 minutes ago, Genie said:

In the game of Covid top trumps does keeping pubs open beat saving lives and reducing the spiralling cases of Corona virus? I’m not hopeful myself, very clearly political move he knows he won’t win.

Well, it depends, doesn't it. It's not as simple as you suggest. We'll put aside for a moment the conversation about how much pubs actually contribute at all. Would we close businesses for the next year that employ about half a million people in order to save 1 life? Of course not. A couple of million? Absolutely. 

We're very much in to the murky waters of weighing up how many people's lives we're willing to set back significantly to save (almost certainly a much smaller number of) other people's lives. There are no easy answers.

Edited October 12, 2020 by Davkaus

[Genie]

11 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

Well, it depends, doesn't it. It's not as simple as you suggest. We'll put aside for a moment the conversation about how much pubs actually contribute at all. Would we close businesses for the next year that employ about half a million people in order to save 1 life? Of course not. A couple of million? Absolutely. 

We're very much in to the murky waters of weighing up how many people's lives we're willing to set back significantly to save (almost certainly a much smaller number of) other people's lives. There are no easy answers.

Current situation is cases spiralling out of control.

When Leicester went into local lockdown a few weeks ago it had 70 cases per 100,000 people. The numbers I saw at the weekend suggested Liverpool has over 600 per 100,000 people. Obviously an issue to be addressed urgently.

[Demitri_C]

Now they trying to tell us covid survives  on bank notes for four weeks...

Hmm cashless society  anyone?

[Straggler]

I'm fuming about all this.  We are on here arguing about if the pub closing times are working or if our schools should be open or closed, or even if we should just go out an contract Covid and hope that we are not one of the unlucky ones so we can get on with normal life.  We are all talking about what is the next sacrifice we should make as the public.  We already did it.  We shut down the whole country for moths, we followed the rules we brought the infection rates down, we saved the NHS, we saved each other.  That time was hard won, people have suffered, jobs have been lost, families and individuals are under huge pressure as savings evaporate and jobs are lost.  And what was bought with that time?  Hundreds of millions of pounds public money moved into private hands, billions if you include the bailouts to pay for a track and trace that does not work and testing that is insufficient. We as a nation should be getting used to the new normal, wearing a mask, washing our hands, going to the pub, eating out, going to work doing it all safely with faith in a system that can identify an outbreak and isolate it quickly.  Any risk we take is then manageable, we don't have to sacrifice granny for the stock exchange.

But here we are debating if it's so bad that student age people are getting infected.  The answer is yes it is bad especially when they did not have to be if we had a competent government.  Here we are pointing at the north and their lack of discipline, spreading the disease everywhere whilst letting the govt off the hook for leading the lack of discipline charge.  It is not the fault of the public that we are tired, I don't blame anyone at this stage for not following the rules because the evidence is that they achieve F all and any sacrifice we make is not for us or our community, but to the golden god of the stock exchange and Tory doners.  Our donkeys of leaders have managed to achieve the double wammy of the deepest of economic pain whilst having one of the worst infection rates in the world. We did our bit, Boris, Hancock etc failed us all and they are pointing the finger at us for not following the rules that they neither understand or follow themselves. 

We as a nation pulled together to save each other.  The Tories are now busily tearing us apart to save themselves.  Well i say **** those c**** let's tear them apart instead.

[NurembergVillan]

14 minutes ago, Straggler said:

I'm fuming about all this.  We are on here arguing about if the pub closing times are working or if our schools should be open or closed, or even if we should just go out an contract Covid and hope that we are not one of the unlucky ones so we can get on with normal life.  We are all talking about what is the next sacrifice we should make as the public.  We already did it.  We shut down the whole country for moths, we followed the rules we brought the infection rates down, we saved the NHS, we saved each other.  That time was hard won, people have suffered, jobs have been lost, families and individuals are under huge pressure as savings evaporate and jobs are lost.  And what was bought with that time?  Hundreds of millions of pounds public money moved into private hands, billions if you include the bailouts to pay for a track and trace that does not work and testing that is insufficient. We as a nation should be getting used to the new normal, wearing a mask, washing our hands, going to the pub, eating out, going to work doing it all safely with faith in a system that can identify an outbreak and isolate it quickly.  Any risk we take is then manageable, we don't have to sacrifice granny for the stock exchange.

 

But here we are debating if it's so bad that student age people are getting infected.  The answer is yes it is bad especially when they did not have to be if we had a competent government.  Here we are pointing at the north and their lack of discipline, spreading the disease everywhere whilst letting the govt off the hook for leading the lack of discipline charge.  It is not the fault of the public that we are tired, I don't blame anyone at this stage for not following the rules because the evidence is that they achieve F all and any sacrifice we make is not for us or our community, but to the golden god of the stock exchange and Tory doners.  Our donkeys of leaders have managed to achieve the double wammy of the deepest of economic pain whilst having one of the worst infection rates in the world. We did our bit, Boris, Hancock etc failed us all and they are pointing the finger at us for not following the rules that they neither understand or follow themselves. 

 

We as a nation pulled together to save each other.  The Tories are now busily tearing us apart to save themselves.  Well i say **** those c**** let's tear them apart instead.

 

Such a good post, I'm not even going to selectively quote the bits about moths or doners.

[mjmooney]

1 minute ago, NurembergVillan said:

Such a good post, I'm not even going to selectively quote the bits about moths or doners.

I was going to, but I won't now. 

[Seat68]

4 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

I was going to, but I won't now. 

You are slacking and therefore loosing all credibility. 

[bickster]

1 hour ago, Demitri_C said:

Now they trying to tell us covid survives  on bank notes for four weeks...

Hmm cashless society  anyone?

The only physical money I've touched since March has been out of my change jar for pumping up tyres and pay and display machines

It's not even news, iirc this was known before we even went into lockdown the first time

[mjmooney]

[snowychap]

1 hour ago, Demitri_C said:

Hmm cashless society  anyone?

No, no and no.

[HanoiVillan]

Too much focus in this thread on fomites (surfaces) in general the last few days tbh imo

I haven't seen anything from reliable scientific sources saying anything other than that the vast majority of transmission is through droplets in the air, and also that around 80% of infections are driven by circa 20% of infected people (ie, super-spreaders), neither of which seems to suggest that worrying about picking up covid from surfaces is time well spent (though obviously a good idea to wash your hands regularly anyway, not just because of covid).

I'm open to correction if people have reliable recent sources arguing otherwise, but that's what I've read.

[Genie]

6 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Too much focus in this thread on fomites (surfaces) in general the last few days tbh imo

I haven't seen anything from reliable scientific sources saying anything other than that the vast majority of transmission is through droplets in the air, and also that around 80% of infections are driven by circa 20% of infected people (ie, super-spreaders), neither of which seems to suggest that worrying about picking up covid from surfaces is time well spent (though obviously a good idea to wash your hands regularly anyway, not just because of covid).

I'm open to correction if people have reliable recent sources arguing otherwise, but that's what I've read.

 

[HanoiVillan]

3 minutes ago, Genie said:

 

Well, two things - first, note that I didn't say it is impossible, and second note the date on that piece of advice.

[Genie]

Just now, HanoiVillan said:

Well, two things - first, note that I didn't say it is impossible, and second note the date on that piece of advice.

I don’t think this virus, or the general way any respiratory viruses are passed around has changed since March.

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

15 hours ago, Seat68 said:

One of a number of measures

If all the measures were kept to by everyone to an acceptable level the Virus in the UK and NL would in theory be a memory only.

Unfortunately the governments in question have lost the dressing room.  I don't believe anyone is taking the instructions seriously anymore and there is no way back.

 

[HanoiVillan]

3 minutes ago, Genie said:

I don’t think this virus, or the general way any respiratory viruses are passed around has changed since March.

If you think our understanding of the virus has not changed since March, you are mistaken. The WHO have changed advice on several points (even massive ones, like wearing masks).

[Genie]

Just now, Amsterdam_Neil_D said:

Unfortunately the governments in question have lost the dressing room.  I don't believe anyone is taking the instructions seriously anymore and there is no way back.

 

I kinda agree but do think a lot of people still take them seriously, the amount of “why should I bother when the people in charge don’t” has grown to a point where it’s having a negative impact.